149 comments
Shamrock
Shamrock

Perhaps.....on the other hand, consider that those who have what you called the "open mind", more than likely, blow with the wind, in one ear and out the other, with little regard for veracity. The attitude smacks of relativism which regards absolute truth as unattainable. Today's modernist! The irony is, of course, that by insisting on this, they prove absolutely Truth exists! They are so absolutely sure of their own thinking!

Joker
Joker

Cathlic or not, you are exactly the kind of closed minded elitists that Richard Rohr talks about in his other books.

Rich Grzesiak
Rich Grzesiak

Saddened by your comments here. Please use your business in a positive way. Promote your own products and stop attacking others for their beliefs and their products. Keep the focus on being constructive.

Dave
Dave

I'm certainly finding the banter on the site interesting and thought provoking. Thank you to all for the dialogue. I'm struggling with an idea that doesn't seem to make any sense to me. It seems to me that there are some people, Catholic friends of mine, that live in an alternative universe. I am a Catholic and find it amazing that some Catholics support ideas that are in direct opposition to Catholic teaching. Some of these same people view me, an orthodox Catholic, as either neurotic or unenlightened. So my question is this: How do people choose sides in this battle for truth? What little decisions have they made that cause them to embrace heresy? Ask some of these lapsed Catholics if they struggle with sin and they will deny sin's very existence. Has life's mission for them become to deny this struggle? Have they buried and surrounded their hearts to the point where there is no return? The standard laid down in the gospel is a difficult one. But for anyone to deny the standard exists appears to mean they are lost, in frightening fashion. How do we connect on a deep level with people, if they deny the standard? If they deny the foundation? Richard Rohr is someone who I pity, and I mean that with charity. What happened to him that he would abandon the struggle that we are supposed to work out with fear and trembling; meaning our salvation. How does he relate to the real people who struggle with sin and addictions in this valley of tears? The sighs, mournings, and weepings seem not to exist for many Catholics. It is frightening, to me, that some seem to have arrived at this point. Elevating my consciousness simply will not work. Those who prescribe such remedies are false teachers who I have nothing in common with. They know not the struggle. But Jesus does.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Judy...you stated that Jesus was incarnated so that we could know who we are in relation to God. What does that mean? It does NOT mean Jesus did not come as Expiation for our sins as you declared in one of your statements. If you truly think that then you do not understand Salvation History at all. Why would God want us to know more about our humanity, our relationship to Him, if it was not part of the whole history of our salvation and our place in it and Who Jesus would become for us. We, who are totally unable by ourselves, to save ourselves? Yes, the message is all about love, His Love! God's Love was for us was so great, John tells us, that He gave His only Son to the Cross? Why? To be the Sacrificial Lamb, to go to the slaughter, as the expiation for our sins, all sins, since the Fall of Adam and Eve. The Lamb of God! We cannot love or understand what real Love is if we do not accept the Lamb. It all boils down to the question Jesus asked of Peter " Who do you say I am"? Peter gets it right because Our Father in heaven gave it to him. Rohr gets it wrong sadly and proclaims a false message in his writings about who Jesus truly said He is. The Jesus Rohr presents is a Jesus of his own making to * tickle the ears* and soften the real message of love.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Judy...You are correct that we are not to judge the final disposition of anyone's soul. We cannot. Only God, Who alone sees the diposition of one's soul, makes that judgment. This is precisely what the Church teaches. However you seem to indicate, if not outright suggest, there is no such thing as damnation. Did you get this from Rohr? For that is one of the many errors he leads us into in his writings. Clearly Rohr is wrong about that as Jesus spoke more times about Hell ( there are several different words used to mean same place) than about Heaven. He warned continuously that to follow Him was a narrow, difficult path and that *many* choose rather the wide, less demanding path of the world. Hell is an unpleasant subject to discuss , so seldom do we hear anything bu today's homilists, who tend to preach a softer and less truthful message than in the pre Vatican II days.but never doubt it is real and exists. Truth does not change nor is it relative to our own misguided feelings. You can read what the Church says about it in the Catechism ( unfortunately you will probably have to go there as little to nothing is being said from the ambo ) where you also find that is the judgment only God, Who is Justice, can make. It is a choice ( Hell) freely made by those who reject God, for a life of sin, which is the death of grace within the soul. Of course, we make judgments about other things all day long, from the time we arise until we go to sleep at nite. We live our lives by making judgments. Thus the 10 commandments, plus the Greatest Commandment of all to love, are all there to guide us in making those judgments carefully so that we do not fall into serious sin, risking the joy of Heaven for the pains of Hell for all eternity. Because we are all sinners, being the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, Jesus provided, through His sacramental church, the sacrament of Reconciliation, where we can find great comfort being restored to God and to that state of bliss that no man can take away from us. Sadly we can throw it away by living sinfully, which is really exactly what you said: failure to love as Jesus loved. An excellent article on Hell can be found at Catholic Answers by Jim Blackburn that you can google ( title: Hell? Yes!) or click on the ural: http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/hell-yes-part-I - When you refer to the message of Jesus about love you must also tell the full truth of that message and not gloss over the more difficult parts of what He said and warned us about. This is the tendency and error of Richard Rohr...who would send us out into the world having only part of Jesus' message while with-holding the very dire warnings of " Woe be to....." ! Which is like sending people out on a very stormy and dangerous sea without life jackets, without the fullness of the truth, including the dire warnings. This is what Rohr does in this book and woe to those who fall into his trap.

Shamrock
Shamrock

@ Judy...You have stated that fear and love are opposites. Where there is fear, there cannot be love. In some minds, in the past, the thought is the Church emphasized hell too much and heaven too little and put the *fear of God* in those whose souls they were responsible for. Not everyone experienced this but enough so that many today think of the Church as *unloving* and *cruel* but those people have obviously not been to Church too much if at all since Vatican II. Since VII it seems the pendulum has swung the other way by priests who never, ever speak of either heaven, hell, sin and damnation. It is if they do not exist in some minds at all, like Rohr. We forget perhaps that Paul reminds us to work out our salvation in fear ..and trembling! Recall also the gospel story of Lazarus and the Rich man...and realize that fear of the Lord is not a *bad* thing.

Jo
Jo

He speaks beautifully of the Eucharist.

Jo
Jo

Crikey. All I said was that I wished to read his books. Some of you are Bonkers. Shamrock, OTT mate.

Joann
Joann

I could not agree more with Shamrock's post and I had hoped to tell those people who admire Rohr to go to his website and read some of the outrageous proposals that he makes. I could not find the writings that I had seen before, one of which was about all these men gathered around a campfire in Arizona and how Rohr thought it was so funny how all of them had to strip their clothes off and jump over the campfire. As I have said previously, we had a great Bible Study group at our church until the leader started reading Rohr's books and then the Bible Study became all about Rohr and what he thought instead of reading about what St. Paul teaches us to do. One thing was that we should keep our eyes on Christ if we wanted to go to heaven; it was all about Jesus, not about some man who praised himself. One of the last things that the leader told us, before I quit the group, was that the reason Jesus had to perform the miracle of the wine at the Wedding feast of Cana was that Jesus and the disciples had gone to the wedding, uninvited, and had drunk all the wine, so naturally his mother, who was invited, had to tell him to replace the wine. I said nothing at the time but I read the account again and wrote the leader a little report stating that Jesus and his disciples were indeed invited and that St. John said that this first miracle caused the disciples to believe in him. It also illustrated that Mary cared that couple needed the wine and that Jesus would do what she asked of him. I also chided the leader for making Jesus and his disciples sound like a bunch of hooligans. He simply said that it was well written but made no comment on the fact that they were invited to the wedding. Later on, our pastor stopped the Bible Study but I never heard what the circumstances were. So, I feel that Rohr was the reason that we no longer have a Bible Study Group but I would rather not have a group than have them be exposed to the teachings of Richard Rohr.

Shamrock
Shamrock

@Jo ...You are as *FREE* as the wind to read Richard Rohr. It is the way God created all of us with free will. Just as Ian is free not to carry certain items in his store. Ian is simply doing his Christian duty as the owner of a Catholic bookstore to help others avoid the possible pitfalls and snares that await those who indulge in Richard Rohr, knowing that many have succumbed to his soothing words and tickling philosophy. Peter warned his flock also of false teachers kn owing that there would be those who would not heed his words. All Ian is saying here ( and I know he is correct because I unwittingly had the experience of reading Richard Rohr and know he speaks and writes NOT with the mind of the Church) is *why* as a Catholic bookstre they will NOT carry Richard Rohr's books or any authors that preach outside the Church's teachings. All this sidetrack of Mary, Church doctrine,traditions, MIL's etc is extraneous to the article. It seems to me Ian is acting responsibly and instead of castigating him for his efforts we should be thanking him for his concern. After his warning and all those who have spoken here warning you, you still want to read him to satisfy your own curiosity, you are FREE to do it. But believe me, if you are as well versed in Catholicism as you say you are, you will come away feeling used and vastly disappointed or worse terribly victimized. Personally, if you need to do that, fine but I must say I find your attitude most adolescent. Like a teenager who has been warned away from bad companions but MUST find that out for himself. Headstrong and belligerent. I will pray that by putting your soul in danger you will not succumb to the temptations of this false prophet and dissident priest. Remember, Eve felt much the same as you do when Satan tempted her. She also had been warned.

Jo
Jo

Scripture and tradition go hand in hand...

Jo
Jo

Scripture and Tradition do work hand in hand in slightly complicated way.

Maureen
Maureen

Can anyone tell me how I can unsubscribe from this site? Thank you.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Jo...I do not know your MIL but surely she was merely beseeching Mary to aide her in her requests knowing that it is God Who is All Mighty and Powerful ...and her Creator. Mary is like all mothers in her love for us and is a comforting presence to know she is our Mother in Heaven. She is the *vessel* through whom God entered the world ( Incarnation) and she continues to bring Jesus to us in] our daily prayers. You are having difficulty with Mary perhaps because you do not accept this teaching which is very much a part of Catholic belief and practice. Many have this struggle because they struggles with their own mother who may have not be very maternal....just as some struggle as seeing God the Father as a loving and merciful God...because they struggled with their own earthly fathers. This may not be your case but know that if you reach out to Mary you will grow closer to Jesus.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Jo....Yes, but recall John Cardinal Henry Newman said, " Ten thousand difficulties do not make a single doubt"! In this year of faith we can learn so much from those who teach us how to be obedient to Christ's call. He has promised if we but seek we shall find, if we ask it (faith) will be gven to us. Faith and trust go hand in hand.We all will struggle toward the goal and have difficulties but we perservere through them, like Paul and all the saints. It does not help if along the way we run across a priest, like Father Rohr, who in his struggle (s) with the truth of our faith leads others astray. Because he is a priest, people will take him at his word which is scandelous and ruinous for souls as he clearly dissents. It is an obligation to warn others of the pitfalls of his books and writings wherein they are not in keeping with the church's teaching. To be Catholic is a way of life, a difficult and arduous way for it is the way of sacrificial love. The road to perdition Jesus warned is wide and smooth and easy. The road we follow Jesus on is narrow and difficult and many will turn away in anquish and sorrow. We need the sacraments of the church to give us strength and holy, devout priests to bring them to us. We must pray that Father Rohr will use his talents to that end.

Becky
Becky

Sorry Jo I misread that you were a cradle Catholic. My bad.

Becky
Becky

Jo I too am a cradle Catholic who is going through the struggle which is life. And never pretend to be any type of theologian. After all these years I have learned, a life of Faith is not nearly as hard as we humans try to make it. There are plenty of self help books and speakers out there. Fr. Rohr speaks lofty words and throws in a Bible verse here to make it sound authentic. But under all the loftiness I find it all New Age chatter. That is my personal opinion. I spoke to my Priest about why the Church has not excommunicated Rohr and I found his answer quite charitable but befuddling. He informed me that the Church has chosen, in recent history, not to take that negative approach. That She affirms publications and that if one's teachings are consistent with the Church you will find the book contains the seal of his Bishop on the title page. I find it befuddling because I NEVER would have known that if I had not asked him.... St Theresa teaches us of "the little way". How simple and difficult. Such is life this side of Heaven.

Shamrock
Shamrock

About those who depart from what the Church teaches Pope Benedict XVI has said: ( and the faithful would be wise to take heed) " It is important to recognize dissent for what it is and not to mistake it for a mature contribution to a balanced and wide-ranging debate." Fr Richard Rohr is "off the track" in terms of our faith and is misleading many guillable persons who seek his "warm-fuzzy" comforting message of false witness in place of the proverbial Cross that Christ presents as a the Way to Salvation.

Jo
Jo

I'm going to write something quite strong now and I write it from a place of sadness. I meet people who have been taught what the church teaches but not that God loves them with a depth beyond imagining. What emanates from some if these posts is a relationship with the Church. But faith is a relationship with God and a testament to the power of love in our lives. I have met some awesome people in the Church on my journey as a Catholic & they have inspired me. My life has taken an amazing turn because of the inspiration of their life & faith. I ask that if we are to be taken seriously as Catholic people of faith that we pay attention to how we treat people who struggle or question and also who disagree with us. Jesus would want that.

Becky
Becky

Jo, indulgences are not a doctrine of the Church. (You gave yourself away with that one). I believe we are called to live the values of love and compassion not simply explore them. Is it possible to "explore" Truth???

AwesomeSauce
AwesomeSauce

First being open minded doesn't make one a relativist. Being open minded is quite simply about having the humility and honesty to know that you don't know everything. Secondly open minded people or people who are relativist arguably are more concerned with veracity they are just less sure of it because they have either actually investigated their belief or because they know they don't know everything... They are confident in their own thinking but probably less confident in their own than someone who believes unquestioningly... But I'm not sure you could call believing unquestioningly thinking.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Wouldn't you want to be *warned* if the product is not what it advertizes itself to be? That is all that Ian is saying....Father Rorh's books cross the line in many places while purporting to be in line with Catholic teaching. Honestly! Doesn't it seem like anybody can call themselves Catholic today that has a pulse? We NEED people to speak up and proclaim the Truth...not play around with it until it resembles more somethng like wishful thinking.

Ian
Ian

It actually is constructive to point out problems with the writings of people who claim to be Catholic. Especially with ones who command such popularity.

AwesomeSauce
AwesomeSauce

@shamrock have you ever studied theology. I'm just wondering why different ideas than your own scare you so much? I mean if you've read the smallest amount of theology Rohr's inspirational books are hardly controversial and actually quite refreshing. I like Rohr's books myself I both agree and disagree with your assessment that he is presenting "a Jesus of his own making." I agree because which one of us doesn't have a Jesus of ones own making. What I mean is none of us have the same experiences, knowledge, ways of understanding, or relationship with Jesus. If by "Jesus of his own making" you mean Rohr has presented an idea of Jesus that is not supported by the bible I would have to disagree with you. Certainly Rohr may have presented Jesus in a way that isn't supported by your interpretation of the bible. He has nonetheless supported his ideas with Scripture... And to the point of the post he has done so sufficiently enough to be supported (and I might add not deemed a Heretic) by the Catholic Church, and the Bishop he is accountable to, as well as the community of Franciscans. I would say that all of that actually makes Rohr's Books "Authentically Catholic" whatever that means... Does this place sell Relics? That seems Authentically Catholic... Or maybe not there are certainly a lot of relics of questionable origin.

Judy
Judy

Shamrock, Jesus tells us how many times to be not afraid. Fear is not a very effective motivator of actions. The fear of the God, is better translated, in our language as "awe". Yes, sin is real. But, I challenge anyone to cite where the Catholic Church has ever stated that any soul was condemned to Hell. The Church states that there is the possibility of Hell. Care should be taken when thinking about condemnation. Who did Jesus condemn?? No one. His only hint of condemnation was against the leaders of the church of his time. Why? Because they saw themselves as holy and condemned others. God's justice is not our justice. We come to spiritual maturity when we can say "I do not know the mind of God", for surely no one this side of the grave does! We have a model, a paradigm, in Jesus. What did Jesus ask of us? To love one another. Simply that. But how hard that seems to be. Look at Scripture.... the parable of the Prodigal Son, why do we so readily relate to the older brother? The Prodigal Father is the image of God. He rejoices that his son has come back. He does not judge him, he does not hold anger towards him. He LOVES. Jesus also admonishes us not to judge. "The measure by which you measure, you will be measured by." God so loved us that he became human - so that we might understand who we are to God. Jesus did not become human as expiation for our sinfulness. He became human to show us who we are. We could not accept his message, and killed him. But the love of God would not be thwarted by our indolence. No, he rose on the third day. God would not give up on humanity. So now we are challenged to love in the same way. To empty ourselves for others. Judge not, says the Lord. I am the Way and the Truth and the Light. Why choose to fear God vs. allowing God to show us how to love as God loves. We are called to be the compassion of God. Imagine what the world would be like if we all could just love as God loves. Perhaps we should err on that side. Leave justice seeking to God. God doesn't need us to tell God who is lost and who is saved.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Jane....Am so sorry ....what I wrote to Judy is meant for you. Please forgive...my sister is Judy and I quess when I start a capital J ...the rest just automatically followed...again, sorry.

Jo
Jo

Ps I didn't have strong opinions about him. You all did. However you only 'get' what you want to get. I just disliked the way he was spoken about and how nasty people were about him. I went to A&More by accident because I wanted some books on experience and tradition. I was shocked at the uncharitable way of speaking to each other in print. I knew nothing really about Fr Rohr.

Shamrock
Shamrock

@Jo Ok! It is time now to fulfill your stated desire and go read the book or whatever it is that has you all worked up. THEN come back and tell us how wonderful (or not) you find Richard Rohr. So far all you have done is argue about what you have not done....read the man! How you can have such strong opinons about someone unread in your experience is a mystery!

Mark30339
Mark30339

I challenged the Rohr detractors in my Dec. 2012 comment (http://catholicinformation.aquinasandmore.com/2011/03/16/why-we-dont-and-wont-ever-carry-richard-rohr/comment-page-1/#comment-14212) and got no takers. Let me challenge another way. Richard has very substantive comments on scripture in these books: New Great Themes of Scripture, parts 1 and 2; Great Themes of Paul parts 1 and 2; Sermon on the Mount; and Things Hidden in Scripture. Shamrock, Ian and others are so strident in their derision, but they probably haven't invested in studying even a single chapter of these core teachings. It's one thing to not like Richard's blog post social commentary, I'm not that into his politics either. It's quite another thing to actually show how his books on scripture are so wrong they deserve condemnation. It's time for the detractors to do a little scholarship or do some apologizing for their slander.

Ali
Ali

Oh for crying out loud. Dramatic, much? The fact that this guy refers to other spiritual teachers or belief systems as "competition" demonstrates a fundamental "missing the point" of the gospel. The "competition" that he refers to are.....God's children. Rohr teaches inclusion, as did Jesus. Rohr teachers a deeper meaning, a deeper interpretation of biblical metaphors for those that are ready to walk away from a disclusionary, fear-based spirituality - as did Jesus if you look beyond surface meanings of His teaching. God doesn't work on fear. You know why? IT DOESN'T WORK. Love can't exist in the midst of fear. Real, abiding change doesn't happen because of fear. Behaviors might change with fear, but your core doesn't. Your message, and the message of past spirituality, is one of fear. Even looking at other teachers is labeled by you as "temptation." Ironic that you label others as adolescent...I invite you to spiritual adulthood. You'll find the only fear is that which is created inside of you by your humanity and thought of being separate and unworthy of God.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Yes, Maureen, just click on the ural below the comment you receive, that says to unsubscribe....I don't blame you for it is getting a bit *insane* here....God bless you during this Lenten season and always!.

Jo
Jo

Maureen, I cannot find how to do this myself! I am weary of being drawn into unedifying discussion. I don't want to see anymore comments in my email box because I'm beginning to feel annoyed. And it's Lent!

Jo
Jo

No, Shamrock you do not know my MI Law! You will just have to believe me & not decide that you know what I am REALLY saying! The Church herself speaks of Idolatry of Mary. It is possible. She speaks to us of Jesus but she is not in place of him. Sadly there are those who don't grasp that because of poor teaching.

Jo
Jo

Thank you Becky. I had a wonderful Christian upbringing but was received into the Church thirty years ago! PS I am not pro or against R Rohr. I merely wish to read for myself and decide.

Jo
Jo

It is right to be truthful about what one feels or thinks. Otherwise there can be no discussion. When we teach our children we listen to their insights and we value them. We do our teaching also in the way we respond to their questioning. Likewise when people speak of their fears and anxieties about faith, about God, about the Church. We create a loving and safe place whilst knowing what the Church teaches. That is how it is done. It is not done by aggressively shouting them down and telling them they are in error if they can't believe. Their faith journey is unique and God is quite up to task in the taking of hands and bringing people home.

Jo
Jo

Indulgences are Doctrine since Doctrine is Teaching. I'm really loathe to point score but if we followed Ian's logic does that make the Cradle Catholic look like a "Fundamentalist Protestant" for failing to know that?!?!?! Sorry, couldn't resist a little 'Touche'!

Jo
Jo

Becky I am RC. I am not a cradle catholic and therefore I suppose there might be the odd time I am unaware of terms. After thirty years I feel I'm still learning which is good. I don't think it's helpful when folk like yourself get picky and make assumptions. Not kind and not Christian. "Gave yourself away"! Pay attention to yourself please Becky. Truth is truth. Yes. However we don't have truth conferred upon us; as Aquinas said, faith seeks understanding. Also please see below.

Jo
Jo

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION OF POPE PAUL VI INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA WHEREBY THE REVISION OF SACRED INDULGENCES IS PROMULGATED Chapter 1 1. The doctrine and practice of indulgences which have been in force for many centuries in the Catholic Church have a solid foundation in divine revelation(1) which comes from the Apostles and "develops in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit," while "as the centuries succeed one another the Church constantly moves forward toward the fullness of divine truth until the words of God reach their complete fulfillment in her."(2)

Shamrock
Shamrock

Obviously, you *drank the Kool Aide* that Rohr offers. The antidote? Try a serious reading of the Catholic Catechism!

Shamrock
Shamrock

I think you have misinterpreted what was said here . Strong opinions being expressed about those who would vilify and deny the truths of the Catholic Church are NOT the same as being nasty and small minded. It is speaking truth to lie. It is what we must do as members of the Church Militant, fight for Truth and expose deception wherever it exists so that others may not be led astray. I am grateful to those who have gone before me defending the faith with their very lives. To declare the writings and books of Richard Rohr for what they are ( of course with Christian charity as you point out) is a Christian obligation. It is " with charity part " that is often the most difficult as these lies are MOST offensive especially when they involve basic beliefs, like the Eucharist, the focal point of our faith practice. You are so sadly mistaken when you claim RR speaks beautifully of the Eucharist. If you believe that than either you do not have a correct understanding of what the Eucharist is or you have bought the lie. That MUST be pointed out to you IN ALL CHARITY because not to do so would be cooperating in spreading the lie. I must say that in looking at the comments here most everyone has bent over backwards to speak to you with kindness while not being held hostage to your misinterpretations of RR. In the final analysis, it would appear that your objections to what has been said here is not so much due to being offended at HOW things have been said as to WHAT was being said. In brief, one can assume only that you are a *fan* of Richard Rohr.You have claimed to know nothing about him but not to have read his books. Are we to assume now from your statements ( like the one on Eucharist) you have read him and find him enlightening? No problems with what he says? It would appear so. More's the pity!

Becky
Becky

Amen Shamrock!!!! Just do it!

Shamrock
Shamrock

Mark.....Once more, a serious reading of the Catholic Catechism would give you more than enough insight into Rohr's numerous heretical errors that disqualify him from the shelves of a Catholic bookstore. No need, other than to satisfy one's curiosity to plow through your suggested website when one has already given enough reasons why Rohr cannot qualify for a Catholic bookstore. ( Why would you eat a food that you already know only gives you a bad case of indigestion.) And after all, this is the point of Ian's blog. If you are not in agreement, then your *beef* is actually with Truth, as it is taught by the Catholic Church, not with Ian. It never ceases to amaze how for some, Catholic teaching of Truth is somehow open to dissent and distortion and that those distortions and departures from Church teaching are as legitimate as Truth itself. It is called relativizing Truth and is entirely false and completely misleading. Placing Rohr on a bookshelf dedicated to solid church teaching is shamefully misleading and dishonest. Ian is to be commended for refusing to collaborate with lies which mislead souls away from their eternal destiny and the Truth which sets men free from such error. You and everyone else are free to chase after such nonsense but you look for all the world like the cat who endlessly chases its own tail. There are those who call themselves Catholic, but what they really mean, is they are Catholic according to their own definition of its teachings or distorting Truth itself. Rohr falls into this category in many serious ways It is to this end Rohr writes and therefore, he does not belong in a Catholic bookstore. He is hoping to bring the Church around to his way of thinking by sprinkling his *feel good* books with serious error and calling them "Catholic teaching" or in some instances, inviting the Church to change God's revealed Truth. The Church was instituted by Christ as a place on earth where Truth could be deposited and proclaimed from, until His Return. He knew it would be attacked and reviled as He was, and we were given a very grave task to not only proclaim but also to defend these Truths from those who would do it irreparable harm. It is not censorship ( after all, there are secular bookstores that stock his books where you can purchase them ). It is called doing the will of God when you defend Truth in all its aspects. Consider a store that sold automobile parts. You would only purchase there if you knew that the store carried a reputation for stocking its shelves with legitimate merchandise. Only a fool would purchase items from this store if it was known to carry at time stolen goods or shoddy merchandise. Or that its sales practices were misleading and often injurious. Immortal souls are of far great worth than auto parts. Again, Ian is to be commended for his integrity in presenting the truth about Rohr and why he will not be found in his CATHOLIC bookstore. He has done his readers an everlasting favor! Meantime, pray Father Rohr will be visited by the Holy Spirit and be opened to a clearer, less distorted vision of the Truth!

Judy
Judy

Good for you!! Fear is the opposite of love. Most would define hate as the opposite of love, but ultimately, fear is. It is a very infantile theology to use fear. Sadly the Catholic Church has long used fear. If God is Love, then nothing we do can make God love us more, or less. Grace is free gift. There is nothing to fear about God. God loves us all, equally - so how does one respond to such love? By being loving, by following the paradigm of Jesus. Judge not - and do not be afraid. How many times do those words appear in the Gospels. Why do some prefer to see God as judge, waiting to condemn. God does not condemn. We do, much to the disappointment of God.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Ali...the only fear I have is that people are losing touch with their Catholicity due to the preponderant prattle of false teachers ....wolves in sheep's clothing. They are playing with fire in terms of their eternal souls and suggesting that the well-meant warnings here are somehow *over the top* when it is quite the opposite. Many *think* they know their faith well enough so that they can afford to indulge listening to voices speaking outside the reference of authentic teaching. Know your enemy so to speak! But from what I am reading here, most are *falling* for the warm and fuzzy messages being preached by this therapeutic approach and walking away from the narrow road that Jesus speaks to us about. The first noticeable falling away is they no longer go to mass as it doesn't seem relevant today. They go to Church not to give honor and glory to God within the liturgy God created, but rather they go to feel better about themselves as warm and fuzzy, almost therapeutic atmospherics wash over them. The anything goes kind of morality that demands nothing of them. You seem to be casting aspersions on the Catholic Church when you say that " we need to walk away from a disclusionary(?), fear-based spirituality as Jesus did. Really? Is that your interpretation of our Church? Do you understand at all the relationship between Jesus and His Church? Are you a real Catholic? If so, then it would appear it is you that has not found spiritual adulthood. I have expressed my opinon regarding Fr Rohr. Take it or leave it. But remember it is your eternal soul at stake here. Many others here have agreed he is border line heretical and certainly encouraging people away from authentic Catholicism. I also support and applaud Ian for excluding all such materials in his Catholic bookstore. It is not only his right as proprietor but also his duty as a Catholic not to lead his fellow Catholics astray by selling dissenting materials. If you choose not to accept that, of course you are free to go your own way too. But you will looking for pearls of wisdom where few if any exist. No one is stopping you but it is ignorance on your part if you think Fr Rohr is going to help you with you relationship with the real Jesus. It would seem he, like you, perfers the Jesus he has created to tickle your ears and make you feel good about yourself to the one I see hanging on the crucifix. Like those who walked away from Jesus after His Bread of Life discourse....because it was too difficult. I will again repeat the words of Pope Benedict who also is warning you to be discerning about false prophets when he says,"It is important to recognize dissent for what it is, and not to mistake it for a mature contribution to a balanced and wide-ranging debate". Joann...Thanks for sharing your negative experiences when attempting to follow Richard Rohr during Bible Study. You came close to the Father of Lies in that experience and I praise God for giving you the gift of discernment to know when you were being spiritually abused and for the courage to speak up and warn others. I am sure you saved some souls who might otherwise have become involved with this charlatan. I should think that would send red flag warnings to all following this blog. Today's world of relativism where "your truth" and "my truth" exist comfortably side by side is great example of how much we have deviated from Christ's teachings about Truth and its proper place in creation.

Maureen
Maureen

Thank you Shamrock. And God bless you too!

Jo
Jo

Above!

Becky
Becky

My two brothers are followers of RichardRhor. One of them insist that the Church is being run by the Domonicans at this point not time. According to him (read Richard Rohr) the Dominicans rule by fear and that the Franciscans would rule by love . For the life of me, I have never heard such bizarre teaching. As I understand it each Pope comes from his own formation, with Pope Francis being of the Society of Jesus. Further more I haven't heard teaching of the mean, judgmental God since the late 1960's. The Church has taught a God of Love for decades now. Which leads me to think that Rohr is recycling the old "radical hippie" mantras. I hope a large majority of the Church has grown passed that progressive philosophy. I remember not liking all of the "rules" that came with being Catholic but that was in my immature and rebellious days. It seems to me that God Himself gave us the first rule....do not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. That was all He asked. Well we flunked that test! God gave that simple rule for our own good. As with most rules, with obedience comes grace and peace. I agree with Shamrock, Fr. Rohr's words are flowery and soothing to the ear. Basic Christian thinking presents the idea of Nature being a reflection of God. All of Creation is one big hug from God. I believe God wants much deeper of a relationship with each of us than hugs. Unfortunately what has emerged from my brothers' exposure to Rohr's thinking is divisiveness and judementalism. A lot of talking about love, not a whole lot of practicing. Sadly that is my experience.

Shamrock
Shamrock

Jane...Your comment truly touched my heart! I am truly sorry, like you, that so many people feel they have been more hurt than helped by the Church. Do you recall the Mass of Forgiveness offered many years ago by Blessed John Paul II? I think he had you and others like you in mind who had been hurt by actions of certain members of the Church during certain periods of its history. Try to focus on the forgiveness we can receive through the sacrament of reconciliation. I think if you took all this to your priest and told him how you feel you might receive the relief that comes from unburdening all this hurt and pain. Please seek the peace that the Lord so wants to give you and not be further victimized by those who offer a warm and fuzzy kind of faith. And forgive those who have hurt you and your family members so badly. I know that the words of Father Rohr can sound soothing and caring. But along with that comes a sense of false security and enormous error in truth about Jesus and Who He really is. Rohr's message, comforting as it sounds to many, in God's order of things it is destructive to the reality of Christ's true message. Follow the new Pope Francis closely and listen to his words. He is a man of humility and great compassion. He will not lead you astray with false words like those who are in dissent, who can only deceive you by leading you astray in the wide way of the world. Christ tells us we must live our lives now on the Cross and help each other through the trials life by accepting this reality of life. He promises rich rewards for those who persevere. He has said his way is difficult but His grace will be sufficient. The *rules* as you say need to become not regulations or obligations so much as a way of life that offer rich rewards and joy. It involves humility and obedience and giving up of self. I will pray you get in a better place and unburden yourself of worries by getting closer to Jesus and His mother Mary. Be of good cheer and continue seeing God's love for you everywhere but most especially in His Holy liturgy, the Mass, full of blessing and the grace of forgiveness. Peace reign in your life.

Jane
Jane

I have seen at least three members of my family suffer incredible psychological breakdowns over "fear of not meeting God's expectation" for salvation. From the super fundamentalist who claim that salvation is yours if you but "proclaim Jesus (aloud) as your personal Lord and Savior" and Poof you are INSTANTLY saved. Most of the people in all the world of so many generates are therefore unable to be saved because they did not hear/understand/or know of Jesus. This is the religion's worst sin. The Catholic Church is just as morbid and technical in its teachings; mortal sin, venial sin, failure to go to confession, rule after rule after rule.. all the while the truly human nature of the priest who followed all the rules suffered their own broken humanity and unfortunate sexual prclivity. As a young woman, when I listened to Richard Rohr's discussion about the Gospel on cassettes and heard for the first time the truly "Good News" , my spirit soar and I was truly born again in freedom and knowledge and joy of the unconditional love. Yes, sin hurts us. Jesus always said "sin no more" and it was for our own good, not as a part of obtaining salvation. The Church (or all religions organizations) provide a community for folks who can practice religious traditions that make us "feel" like we're doing what we can to be freed from sin and learn more about the Commandment of Love. From the time St. Peter and St. Paul were in disagreement of whether or not gentiles should be circumcised or not , the eternal problem began (man's nature to set rules so everyone was on the same page; more or less. Which of the two holy men's understanding of the rules was to be followed? Paul said it was only necessary to ask gentiles to refrain from eating food offered to idols. Stop this continual bickering between Luthern, Catholic, Baptists, Buddhists, 7th Day Adventists, Mormans, ET ALL! The other day I walked my dog and saw the full moon in the morning sky; Lit like a perfect jewel in the sky. In this moment, my spirit knew, my 'being' knew that this moment was another hug from God. I understood the moon was without any light of its own, but it beautifully reflected the light of the Sun... and this is our role in this life... reflect the light of the Son! I am so tired of the rules, the dissention, the pain and agony from fear of hell that the Catholic religion and fundamentalist preaching has done to some of my family members. I know Christ died for all men to be redeemed. I'm not going to spend my life worrying that I throw the eternal God's eternal gift away if I use contraception, or drink a glass of wine, or miss Mass, or don't go to confession. I will not bear these unbearable burdens... St. Paul declared that we "not" burden the Gentiles with the long-established "rules" of the Jewish faith. God saves, man only muddies the waters.

Why We Don’t and Won’t Ever Carry Richard Rohr
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Why We Don't and Won't Ever Carry Richard Rohr

At Aquinas and More we have always had a policy that we will only carry product that is true to Catholic teaching. Why carry product that undermines the Church unless you want to destroy your own business? Could you imagine Coke or Pepsi selling literature or sending out spokesmen that praise the competition as being just as good as their product or mislead people about what their product is? For some reason there are wildly popular authors who do just that within the Catholic Church.

One such author is Richard Rohr. He is a staple for St. Anthony Messenger Press and gives retreats across the country. I'll be blunt. Fr. Rohr's ideas about salvation are heretical. He just published a new book, Why Be Catholic, which I spent some time looking through. I may have missed it, but amid all of the talk about the need for community and the Church's position on social justice I couldn't find anything about Truth or salvation. It seems to me that any discussion of "Why be Catholic"? needs to start and end with salvation and Truth. Otherwise, the Church is just a social club like the Elks.

Here are some links explaining Father Rohr's "theology". Richard Rohr is a new-age heretic who wraps his heresy in biblical quotes. Here are some samples:

 

{ 149 comments… add one }

  • Joann May 14, 2011, 11:38 am

    I am glad to see that there is someone who agrees with me that Richard Rohr’s teachings have serious theological problems. We had a good Bible Study group at our Parish until the man leading it brought in some books by Rorh. I voiced my opinions that I wanted to study about Jesus and not Richard Rohr but not one person agreed with me. After that, it became all about Rohr. His work with the Enneagram personality system is, to me, another way to study horoscopes. I believe that he is New Age. Our new Pastor stopped the Bible Study and I don’t know why because I dropped the class but I think that we are better off without a Bible Study class than to be exposed to the heretical ideas of Richard Rohr.

  • beth cioffoletti August 8, 2011, 8:06 am

    Oh come on. Fr. Richard Rohr is probably the best Catholic teacher in the USA. He explains Catholic theology in a way that is relevant, redeeming and healing, and 100% true to Catholic teaching.

    • Ian August 8, 2011, 11:31 pm

      If by 100% true to Catholic teaching you mean heretical then we are in complete agreement.

    • The Ranter March 29, 2012, 2:39 pm

      Naw, I’ll take Fr. Barron any day. At least I know that Fr. Barron is an awesome speaker, and faithful to the Church and Her teachings.

      • beth cioffoletti March 29, 2012, 4:55 pm

        Have you ever listened to Fr. Rohr? He is pretty awesome.

        • Ian March 29, 2012, 5:09 pm

          Sounding awesome and speaking Truth awesomely aren’t always the same thing.

        • Shamrock October 23, 2012, 4:34 pm

          Sorry Beth, but you need to heed the words of both Paul and Peter who warned against “false teachers among you, who
          will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the
          Master who brought them, bringing upon themselves swift
          destruction. And many will follow them in their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.” ( 2Peter 2:1-2) Paul also again and again warns
          us against these false teachers who tickle the ears by telling us what we want to hear ..rather than the truth.

          • TRUTH&LIGHT November 26, 2012, 3:00 pm

            That’s exactly what I am also thinking, this is why I am also on this website after hearing some of his sermons. No matter how amusing they sound at first very awe and deep I think he has really lost. I now believe it is more likely that his is a false teacher coming. Who knows maybe this is a sign before the end of times, but I highly doubt it. It is simply a poor San Franciscan Monk that is very confused.

  • Jewells September 19, 2011, 6:54 pm

    Why be Catholic is a question he needs to answer for himself…..because he is not and he knows it. He really does know it.

  • Charles December 10, 2011, 8:42 pm

    Unfortunately, some are so blinded by the plank in their own eye that they worry about the splinters of others. The comments above are filled with hatred, arrogance and thistles of the law. I’ll pray for all of you.

    • Ian December 12, 2011, 12:13 am

      Telling the truth is love, not hatred.

    • Doc Kimble March 29, 2012, 2:43 pm

      Thank you, Charles….for your prayers….God hears all prayers….even those of pagans and heretics….when he hears one coming from a broken and contrite heart…. even spoken to a pagan god,….He says, ” I’ll take this one, Satan.”
      “Doc” Kimble
      Recovering Anti-Catholic

  • Joann December 15, 2011, 11:59 pm

    I was drawn to Ian’s comment that “telling the truth is love, not hatred” because it goes back to John’s Gospel and Pilate’s question when Jesus appeared before him, “What is truth? Pilate had just asked Jesus if He was the King of the Jews and He answered, “You say that I am a king. For this I was born and and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” Jesus, Himself, said so.

    When I was in the first grade we were taught about the Holy Trinity. We repeated , “The Father is God and the first Person of the Trinity; The Son is God and the second Person of the Trinity; the Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Trinity.” Yet, I just watched a video of Father Rohr and Judy Valente in which he said, “ROHR: It’s not correct to say Jesus is God. Now, don’t run and report me to the bishop, all right? It’s not correct to say that — Jesus is the union of the human and the divine. That’s different. I’ve been a priest 43 years. Most of the Catholics Christians I’ve met would for all practical purposes believe Jesus is God only, and we are human only. We missed the big point. The point is the integration, both in Jesus and ourselves.”
    Is Rohr comparing us to Jesus? I was taught that Jesus had two natures; the nature of God and the nature of man. That Jesus became man to redeem us since no human was ever able to keep all the commandments. I was taught that we have only the nature of man. Is Rohr trying to tell us that we were born with the nature of God also? The Arian Heresy, for which the Nicene Creed was written, denied the Divinity of Christ and was fought valiantly by St. Athanacius of Alexandria because Constantine, who helped to bring Christianity into the the main stream, didn’t understand the serious theological error of the teaching of a priest name Arias. But this “truth” of Richard Rohr is even worse, if that’s possible, because it insinuates that we have a divine nature and this is not taught by the Catholic Church. Let us follow the teachings of the Apostles who knew Jesus personally. Let us listen to the voice of Our Savior, Jesus Christ.

  • LM December 28, 2011, 12:15 am

    what is the best way to get Rohrs books out of a Catholic Shrine dedicated to the Blessed Mother that is in a diocese but is run by the Montfort Mission Priests. The Priest who runs the Shrine says Rohr is his mentor and want his books in the book store. How do you go about getting rid of this heretical garbage that will lead countlesss souls astray not to meniton the poor soul of the Priest that is doing this and allowing it to go on. They also have a drumming prayer session of men and woman that orginated from Rohr that people sit around and drum on drums and pray and the Priest in charge put a huge drum in front of a huge Crucifix of our Lord in the Church in honor of the drumming coming from Rohrs thoughts on praying. The Bishop in the diocese visited the Shrine and the drum is still there as well as Rohrs books. Do you write to the Pope, Do you contact the Montfort Missions, Do you write to the Bishop. People have showed their dissaproval of this but since the Montfort Priest who runs the Shrine thinks Rohr is his mentor this is how the situation is played out. Very sad situation. Bazzar how Satan can get in all areas of the Church. What would you do? Also the BIshop carries Rohrs books for a three year religion program for people who want some sort of theological certificate to work in the church. When my friend voiced her opinion in the wrongness of this, guess who had to go thru the ringer like she was wrong. My friend? Yes you are correct. I cant believe it has gotten this far, but it is not surprising since our diocse is one of the most liberal ones in the nation. but still something needs to be done.

    • Ian December 28, 2011, 12:55 am

      If both the bishop and the priest like Fr. Rohr, you really don’t have a chance getting rid of the books except through spiritual means. I would suggest prayer as the best option in this situation.

    • Shamrock October 23, 2012, 4:40 pm

      If the Bishop of your diocese has done nothing after you contacted him regarding your concerns, the next step I believe is to contact the Papal Nuncio’s Office which I believe is in Washington, DC. Also if you have a Diocesan newspaper write a letter to the editor there…and if that gets no results or is ignored I would write a letter to the editor of the local newspapers so that perhaps negative publicity might start things rolling. While doing this pray to the Holy Spirit to guide you . At your Confirmation you were made a Soldier for Christ….Your battle lines have been drawn. You must continue to act!

  • beth cioffoletti December 28, 2011, 7:22 am

    I find Fr. Richard Rohr to be a more gifted preacher than writer. You might want to listen to some of his tapes or watch the DVD’s of his retreats. Our Centering Prayer group just listened to a weekend retreat he did with Trappist priest, Fr. Thomas Keating, entitled Centering Prayer: Healing the Violence Within. It was powerfully transforming.

  • Padraig December 28, 2011, 12:13 pm

    Read 1Corinthians 13:12. God is far more interested in people than principles. Believing that we have all and see all of the truth is “heresy”. The truth is God will take care of Fr Rohr and you and I in HIS own time. There are far greater causes to fight for then what some call “heresy”. Real heresy is not loving your neighbour as yourself. I concur with Charles’ words above.

    • Ian December 28, 2011, 12:26 pm

      God is truth. If we don’t preach truth we aren’t loving our neighbor. If we fail to correct our neighbor (also in the Bible) we aren’t loving him either.

      • Padraig December 29, 2011, 10:18 pm

        It seems there’s quite a rush to preach to and to correct our neighbour. “If we don’t preach truth we aren’t loving our neighbour. If we fail to correct our neighbor (also in the Bible) we aren’t loving him either.”. This does not appear in the Bible. There is no mention anywhere of this. I am open to correction. Please quote the scripture that says this.

        • Ian December 30, 2011, 12:55 pm

          Luke 17:3 “Take heed to yourselves. If thy brother sin against thee, reprove him: and if he do penance, forgive him.”

  • Joann December 28, 2011, 3:16 pm

    This is in response to LM. Several Years ago I volunteered to help with the Religious Education for the students who were attending public schools and we were required to be catechized and we also had to be finger printed, which had not been required when I had volunteered many years before that. I was fine with that, but I had a problem with the catachist from the beginning when she said, “Jesus was a man just like us.” I waited for her to say, in everything except sin” so when she didn’t say it I said it for her. She said, We don’t know that.” I said, Yes, we do, It is in one of the Epistles.” I said, “Jesus is God, He can’t sin.” She countered that He had been tempted and I said that He had been tempted from without, but never from within. I asked if she was saying that Jesus might have thought in his mind that when a merchant turned his back He would steal an apple. She said that it was possible and when I protested, every woman in that class told me to shut up. Many of these women received Holy Communion every day and some were Eucharistic Ministers as I am.

    I found it hard to stay but I did and when the “teacher” left, one of the women remarked that she was a wonderful teacher. I said, “Wonderful? She said that Jesus could sin, I didn’t even think she sounded like a Catholic.” One of the women, who is married to a Deacon, said that I was the one who didn’t sound like a Catholic. I asked why and she told me that it was because I read the Bible and Catholics don’t read the Bible. I just told her that I thought it would be a good idea for everyone to read the Bible. She moved away, but came back for the funeral of an old friend. I was then able to show her the Fourth Eucharistic prayer in which it states that “Jesus was a man like us, in everything except sin.” She looked surprised but thanked me I had also reported to the nun who arranged the class and she was appalled and said that she would talk to them. She later told me that they had told her that I should not have questioned the teacher in front of the class. So, I guess it would be better for the class to go out and tell other people that, “even Jesus sinned” than to embarrass the teacher and defend the Divinity of Jesus.

    For it was St. Paul who said also:  “Brothers I beg you to be on watch against those who cause dissension and scandal, contrary to the teaching you have received. Avoid their company. Such men serve, not Christ Our Lord, but their own bellies, and they deceive the simpleminded with their smooth and flattering speech…I want you to be wise…Then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet.” (Romans 16:17-20).

    As Ian said, we must pray that those in charge will see the errors in Rohr’s teachings because it all becomes about Rhor and not about Jesus. We must conform to the Church and to the teachings of Christ, not make them more palatable to our desires. If you check Rohr’s website you see a sensuality that runs contrary to what Christ wants of us. St. Paul lays it all out in his letters. God is the same yesterday, tomorrow and forever. Christ is the truth and the truth is that He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN
    SON OF GOD. There are religions coming our way that claim that God had many sons. We must cling to Jesus because He is our Mediator with the Father. Our Blessed Mother tells us to pray, pray, pray and to do whatever Christ asks of us. Why does Rhor tell us that we can call God our Mother? Why not do everything the way that Jesus has asked us to?

  • Jewells December 28, 2011, 3:23 pm

    Check out http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org and also http://www.crossveil.org they are both interesting websites and worth looking into.

  • Joann January 4, 2012, 1:49 pm

    This is in response to Padraig and the reference to l Cor., 13, v.12 and his reference to Heresy.
    This is the definition of heresy according to Webster’s Dictionary;
    b : denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church

    It is not an opinion. The Catholic Church does not teach that “Jesus is the union of the human
    and the divine.” That is Rohr’s opinion. I am defending the teaching of the Church because the
    divinity of Christ cannot be denied and neither can His human nature be denied. They are
    separate. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary in order to redeem us and it is an essential truth of
    the Roman Catholic Church.

    When I went to Bible Study classes, we learned that you can use the words of any of the writers
    to prove a point but it may not be the specific point that the writer had in mind. In reading
    I Corinthians, 13, v. 12 the reading guide says this:
    The hymn of love in I Cor., 13, inserted within the context of chapters 12 and 14 on the variety
    of gifts may not be a Pauline composition but something borrowed from Stoic sources, which he
    found helpful to illustrate the unity that should characterize the Corinthians. It goes on to say
    in Chapter 11 Paul alluded to the divisions between the wealthy and the poor at the common
    table. It also says that love remains the most important of all the spiritual gifts of the church,
    but that doesn’t mean that we would not tell someone that a is teaching is heretical.
    I will add the definition of Stoic :
    capitalized : a member of a school of philosophy founded by Zeno of Citium about 300 b.c. holding that the wise man should be free from passion, unmoved by joy or grief, and submissive to natural law.
    It was St. Paul who said also:  ”Brothers I beg you to be on watch against those who cause dissension and scandal, contrary to the teaching you have received. Avoid their company. Such men serve, not Christ Our Lord, but their own bellies, and they deceive the simpleminded with their smooth and flattering speech…I want you to be wise…Then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet.” (Romans 16:17-20).

    I used the Catholic Study Bible, Second Edition, New American Bible, Editors Donald Senior and
    John J. Collins, Oxford Press

  • Pie in the Sky March 29, 2012, 9:15 am

    As a fan of the middle ages, I’m thrilled to see a return to a Catholic obsession with heresy. As a person who is incapable of thinking for myself, I really need dead people to tell me exactly what to think.

    Jesus never burped, by the way, because he was God. Keep it simple, right? Am I right? Am I?

    • Ian March 29, 2012, 2:22 pm

      You have it backwards. Catholicism has an obsession with Truth.

  • Kevin March 29, 2012, 4:09 pm

    I must respect the teachings of the Church, but heresies have been a challenge throughout Her history. This one is not worth the bother.

  • Marcy K. March 29, 2012, 7:17 pm

    Some here might find this article comparing Fr. Rohr’s teaching with that of the the church helpful: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6819&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=856000 Typing in Rohr in the Catholic Culture searchbar also brings up more info. I agree with Aquinas & More that if you are going to be Catholic, if you are going to support the Church, you should be spreading authentic teaching – not what some people WANT the Church to teach – but what it actually does teach. And we have a responsibility to other Catholics to spread the correct information. There is enough bad theology out there – and has been for 40 years – that it explains why the Church in the Western world is the way it is. Catholics have a right to know what their Church really teaches. If you don’t agree with the Church then you need to educate yourself better and take it to prayer. The Church has had 2000 years of experience and has seen kingdoms rise and fall while she carries on the mission of educating and nurturing those who follow Jesus Christ – she teaches the Truth and knows better then the occasional dissident priest. I want to educate myself in the Truth, not read what people who have fallen for the lies of the culture have to say.

  • Ann April 5, 2012, 12:26 pm

    Today is Holy Thursday I was just reading a facebook post by a Protestant of Rohr’s meditation of the day, which calls the Eucharistic a “priestly cult.” I can’t stand the guy

    There’s no real story of the Last Supper in the Gospel of John as we find it in the other Gospels. There is no passing of the bread or passing of the cup. Instead we come upon the story of Jesus on his knees washing the Apostles’ feet. Really quite amazing, and even more amazing that we never made the foot washing into a Sacrament! It is much more explicit in the Scriptures than many other actions we made into sacraments.

    Perhaps John realized that after seventy years the other Gospels had been read. He wanted to give a theology of the Eucharist that revealed the meaning behind the breaking of the bread. He made it into an active ritual of servanthood and solidarity, instead of the priestly cult that it has largely become.

    Peter symbolizes all of us as he protests, “You will never wash my feet!” (John 13:8). But Jesus answers, “If I do not wash you, you can have nothing in common with me.” That is strong! We all find it hard to receive undeserved love from another. For some reason it is very humiliating to the ego. We all want to think we have earned any love that we get by our worthiness or attractiveness. So Jesus has to insist on being the servant lover. Thank God, Peter surrenders, but it probably takes him the rest of his life to understand.-Fr.Richard Rohr

    • Bill M. January 18, 2013, 12:54 am

      I will grant you that the line about the ‘priestly cult’ is a bit jarring, but the rest of the passage is rather lovely. In fact, it makes me want to look into more of Richard Rohr’s work. Thank you for the referral.

  • Ken April 19, 2012, 11:54 pm

    I don’t claim to know much, but as a feeling human being, I do know this- what Richard does for others requires a fearless walk of agape, or ‘unconditional love’, the kind of love that Jesus demonstrated and that we were asked by Jesus Himself to emulate when He said “follow me”.
    To be a Christian literally means to be a “Christ” which is one who aspires to adopt Jesus’ attitude, not to just be a ‘fan’ of what He did.
    When I see Richard, I see a man doing the things Jesus asked us to do, and if his actions offend you, perhaps you should be asking yourself what it is you’re afraid of, and what is it that you have that is so threatened by any one who withholds their love from nobody who is willing to accept it, just as Jesus/God does.
    Are you a ‘fan or a ‘follower’?

    • Ian April 20, 2012, 12:07 am

      Fr. Rohr has chosen to make Christ in his own image. He isn’t a follower.

      • Ken April 20, 2012, 1:23 am

        That’s just a blank statement, you’ll have to qualify that with… something. Tell me, whose actions did I describe inaccurately, Richards or Jesus’?

        • Ian April 20, 2012, 9:02 am

          You didn’t bother to read the post, did you?

          • Ken April 20, 2012, 9:31 am

            That’s not an asnwer. Appearently you didn’t bother to read the Bilble.
            You know a sure sign that a person has made Christ into their own image, Ian? When their Jesus just happens to hate the same people they hate.
            So I ask you once again, whose actions did I describe inaccurately, Richard’s or Jesus’?

          • Ian April 20, 2012, 9:39 am

            Before we discuss this any further, do you believe that the Catholic Church is the authentic interpreter of Scripture and that the Pope has been given the stewardship of Christ’s Church on Earth? If we can’t agree on that then there isn’t any point discussing Fr. Rohr’s heresy because you don’t believe that there is such a thing.

          • Ken April 20, 2012, 10:10 am

            Yes, I do.
            So I ask you again, whose actions did I describe inaccurately, Richard’s or Jesus’?

          • Ian April 20, 2012, 10:23 am

            Go read the various links I posted that explain Fr. Rohr’s heresy in detail. He has denied many things that the Church has declared dogmatically so either he is a heretic or the Church has no authority. Which is it?

          • Ken April 20, 2012, 10:50 am

            I don’t profess to follow ‘Ian’, I profess to follow Jesus, so if you don’t mind I’ll stick to reading about the concerns of Jesus. You’ve already experssed what you’re concerned about and they’re not the things that Jesus said are important.
            So I ask you again, whose actions did I describe inaccurately, Richard’s or Jesus’?

          • Ian April 20, 2012, 11:59 am

            Jesus declared that he was the Truth and that he came to proclaim the Truth so that all may be saved. Fr. Rohr tells people things contrary to the truth so he may be a nice guy but salvation is not on his mind. So actually, I think you describe Jesus inaccurately. Fr. Rohr has consistently preached things that are heretical as true so he is not acting as Jesus would.

            You accuse me of hate and that the proof that I have made Jesus in my own image is that my Jesus hates the same people I hate. Can you please quote where I expressed hatred towards anyone? I think you have fallen into the trap of equating hate with pointing out when heretics are, well, heretical.

          • Ken April 20, 2012, 10:15 pm

            On the contrary. You accused Richard of making Jesus into his own image. I disagreed, stating that you can tell the peole who do that because their Jesus happens to hate the same people they hate. I niether accused you or Richard of hate. It’s interesting that you saw yourself in that statement though.

          • Ken April 20, 2012, 10:53 pm

            My description of was simply this:
            “Jesus demonstrated unconditional love, and we were asked by Jesus Himself to emulate Him when He said ‘follow me’”

            Which part of this is inaccuate?

          • Ian April 20, 2012, 11:34 pm

            We can’t follow Jesus by declaring our own personal truth as Fr. Rohr does on a regular basis. Worse, he leads others away from Christ with his teaching and the Bible says that those who do would be better to have a stone tied around their necks and thrown into the ocean.

            I’m still puzzled how you can claim that Fr. Rohr is Christ-like when what he preaches is against Catholic teaching when you claim to believe that the Catholic Church is the Christ-appointed interpreter of Scripture. You are holding two contradictory claims to be true.

          • Ken April 21, 2012, 11:38 am

            Don’t we all. I guess that’s where the forgiveness part comes into necessity. Where you and I do share common ground is that we both agree that Jesus is the Truth and the Light. I believe this Truth is contained and expressed thru His living actions, and you believe it is contained and expressed thru the written word and Dogma of the Church, and we’re debating which one takes presedence. I think the bigger point is that I could never live up to the perfection of the actions of Jesus any more than you could live up to the perfection of the written Word. We both fall short, and we both are in need of forgiveness, and we’re just two people out of seven billion. I have no right to cast any stones at anybody. I recognize that you are doing what you think is right and I can’t say anything bad about that.
            In any event, we know that we’re not going to convert each other, especially thru these limited words, so I’ll just leave it there. Best to you.

          • Jo February 20, 2013, 4:27 pm

            Which is correct: making doctrines up i.e Assumption, Purgatory, Indulgences or exploring Gospel values like Love and Compassion?

          • Ian February 23, 2013, 10:18 pm

            Jo – You need to go learn the Catholic Faith better. You sound just like a fundamentalist Protestant when you say things like that.

          • Jo February 24, 2013, 12:11 am

            Ian
            You are a rude and opiniated man who does not listen. I do not wish to enter into discussion with you anymore apart from to say that I said earlier that I was praying Devils Advocare. I understand Carjilic teaching perfectly. You do not. Those Doctrines are Tradition. I have no problem with Tradition; rather I have a problem with people telling me that I cannot read RRohr because he makes things up. Well , the Church made those Doctrines up. I am fine with them. I have yet to know whether I am fine with R Rohr. Stop insulting people Ian.

          • Jo February 24, 2013, 12:13 am

            Catholic!

          • jon August 22, 2012, 5:53 am

            Ken, couldn’t have said it any better myself. It’s nice to know there are some like-minded people out there when there are plenty of folks, like Ian, who are threatened by this wisdom teacher of our time and constantly act out of fear. What are you trying to protect Ian? What are you afraid of? It’s always the ego which acts out of fear.

          • Ian August 22, 2012, 9:48 am

            Hi Jon,

            You mistake fear for concern that people will be led astray, as you have, by this man’s teaching. As a Catholic store we have the responsibility to only sell things that clearly present the Catholic Faith. Fr. Rohr’s presentation of the Faith is not orthodox as much as you may like it.

    • Barb May 18, 2012, 9:03 pm

      AMEN! Why do we have to make it so difficult, we try to live like Christ, nothing more, nothing less. I will listen and admire any human being who tries to make it easier for us to live like Christ. Richard Rohr is a living example of someone who understands this basic concept. He is still human, but yet is trying to live and like Christ. We all have to ask ourselves the question, are we trying to live like Christ?

  • Jewells April 20, 2012, 9:43 am

    YAY Ian ! That’s the whole point ! And they don’t believe in it and I have heard Richard rip into the Church many a time.

  • Ken April 20, 2012, 10:03 am

    I rest my case.
    Jesus didn’t have the same attitude towards others that you have, and this is a problem for you. The irony of you accusing others of making Jesus into something He’s not, is staggering.

  • Jewells April 20, 2012, 10:09 am

    What was the attitude of Jesus towards the Pharrasee’s and the Scribes ? Not good at all. It was a genuine negative attitude not unconditional love. I’m just sayin….read it for yourself.

    • Ken April 20, 2012, 10:38 am

      I have read it, as you have, an you are absolulely correct. The problem Jesus had with the Pharrasees and the Scribes was their attitude that God’s Love is conditional and is only accessible to those who qualify to receive it, meaning only Jews. Jesus’ attitude is that God’s love is unconditional and accessible to all the world, Jew and Gentile, and all one has to do receive this accessible Love, is to accept it. Jesus didn’t try to qualify those who came to Him to be healed, He didn’t ask them where they were from or if they believed the same things He did, He loved them right where theywere at.
      Which of these two attitudes closer represents what Richard has done with his life?

  • Jon April 20, 2012, 7:11 pm

    Ian,

    “Jesus declared that he was the Truth”?

    Says who? Were you there? How do you know? Many biblical scholars have provided enough textual analysis to show changes in the meaning of “scripture” from one translation to the next. Not only that, but any history passed down by spoken word and handwritten word faces inevitable distortion over time. There is substantial evidence that the gospels were not even written until decades after the crucifixion of Christ. Play “the telephone game” and one can easily understand how many details got lost or muddled over the course of that time.

    So how does one reconcile this fact?

    Hopefully not by resorting to the common “divine inspiration” belief. That notion holds little water when you study the history of the biblical texts themselves. Scribes deliberately changed words, phrases, or entire chapters in the bible, adding and deleting over the centuries. What then does the dogmatic believer call that? Divine editing?

    Considering such things, one tends to refrain from using the word Truth when speaking about the bible, or any so-called holy text. To insist such a thing, that whatever text is the Truth, is to cultivate an attitude of intolerance and perhaps even extremism. Those are often the symptoms of people who kill in the name of their God.

    The lucky thing for us is that we exist in a time and a place that allows open discussion of our thoughts and beliefs. For Truth, many would argue, does not come from without but from within.

    • Ian April 20, 2012, 11:40 pm

      If you are going to deny that there is Truth then you really need to go comment somewhere else. There are plenty of atheist boards where you will fit right in and plenty of apologetics boards where you can air your tired arguments as many have done before you.

      • Jon April 21, 2012, 12:47 am

        You strictly adhere to Church dogma. But which dogma is it?

        Is it the current dogma that allows usury? That allows religious freedom?

        Or is it the dogma from a century ago that prohibited the two?

        Maybe it was the Church dogma that accepted the buying, selling, and owning of human beings. That dogma was only a couple centuries ago.

        Do you believe that the bible is the holy Word of God? Then explain addressing your priest as ‘Father’ when Mathew 23:9 strictly forbids calling anyone but God your ‘Father.’

        Do you believe Church dogma to be incontrovertible truth? If so, why has it changed?

        I am interested in hearing your honest response to these questions. Not a smarmy retort.

        • Ian April 21, 2012, 1:04 am

          All of your questions are straight from the atheist talking points. There are plenty of books and websites that address each of these questions and I suggest you go read those as they have done a far better job answering them than I could.

  • Hugh April 20, 2012, 11:10 pm

    To the ancient Hebrews Jesus was a heretic.

    • Maureen June 10, 2012, 5:52 pm

      Exactly!

  • beth cioffoletti April 21, 2012, 7:57 am

    I have been listening to Fr. Richard Rohr for more than 20 years and he has led me more deeply into Catholic truth. He is a priest in good standing with the Catholic Church.

    The Catholic Church, in her wisdom, knowing that people are in different places at different times in their journeys, allows for broad expressions of Truth. Some people need a more literal and rigid expression. Others want a more dynamic and open expression.

    Fr. Rohr does not negate or deny any of the Truths that the Catholic Church teaches. For me, he helps to make these truths real and relevant.

    Why waste energy calling him a heretic? Better to express your own knowing of Catholic truth as sincerely and honestly as you can, and then let it all be.

  • David June 20, 2012, 8:31 pm

    Rohr writes: “Only a truly cosmic Christ is adequate to the breadth of our problems and the depth of our hopes today….I personally do not believe that Jesus came to found a separate religion- as much as he came to present a universal message of vulnerability and foundational unity that is necessary for all religions, the human soul, and history itself to survive.”

    http://www.lospequenos.org/RohrDossier/Material/9.3%20Cosmic%20Christ.pdf

    This is New Age garbage.

    Fulton Sheen said nudity was always a sign of demonic influence. The devil doesn’t always come in the form of red tights you know…

    http://www.lospequenos.org/RohrDossier/Material/13.2.a%20NWM%20Rohr%20Talk.pdf

    What of this is of Christ? Nothing.

    His group also partakes in gay parades. The sin of Sodom (not to mention the story in the bible) is a sin that cries out to heaven (Catechism)…

    This site features a dossier about Father Richard Rohr’s activities as well as those activities related to the Center of Action and Contemplation of which Fr. Rohr is founding director.

    http://www.lospequenos.org/RohrDossier/

    • Jon June 25, 2012, 4:11 pm

      Nudity… a sign of demonic influence? Such a belief can only be rooted in extreme discomfort with one’s own body. Be honest, are you afraid of what others think of yours?

      Do you shower fully clothed?

      Perhaps you are disappointed that babies are born in the nude.

      Don’t knock it til you try it.

  • Becky June 22, 2012, 11:08 pm

    Pray tell me what Richard Rhor actually does for people that is so Christ -like? I have read some of his work, listened to some of his sermons and watched some videos and am underwhelmed with his new age-ish ramblings. He throws in scripture references to make the Jungian thought seam spiritual.
    I’ve read where the CAC has a budget of anywhere between 1-5 million dollars. That is a heck of a lot of money……are thousands of people being fed? Are houses being built? Are medicines being distributed?
    I believe that is the form of social justice Jesus would support.

  • Damien July 1, 2012, 9:20 am

    Ian, after 9/11 I (reluctantly) attended a talk by Richard Rohr at a Catholic Church in Phoenix. Whatever you choose to believe about him, his writing/teaching has led me deeper into my faith journey and it brought me back to the Church (after a 12 year absence and lots of searching).
    My understanding is that his teaching has undergone intense scrutiny by Rome and he has been proven ‘orthodox’.

    I’m not here to argue – since you hold the truth ;-) I am posting to bear witness to the effect this man has had on my life and walk with God.
    Peace.

    • Maureen July 2, 2012, 9:17 am

      I’m with you Damian…Richard Rohr has had the same effect on my life and relationship with God.
      A line from the movie A Few Good Men said by Jack Nicholson comes to mind…”You can’t handle the truth”. I know I’m making a judgement here, but it describes a lot of people who refuse to see the truth. It is these people who, if Jesus walked the earth today would crucify Him again. None are so blind as those who will not see.
      Peace

  • Maureen August 22, 2012, 10:41 am

    “None are so blind as those who will not see”. If Jesus walked the earth today, it is people like Ian who would crucify him again. God bless you on your journey.

    • Ian August 22, 2012, 10:54 am

      What is interesting to note about this extended discussion is that no one has addressed the issues that I mentioned in my post.

  • alan September 17, 2012, 7:39 pm

    I found the above article most interesting, but the comments enlightening. The reason most Catholics since vat2 are appalingly ignorant of their faith is that there are so few really Catholic schools that teach the cathecism. I spoke with a HS sophomore on 15 August and he was completely unaware that it was a high holy day. School had begun that week, so school was in session. Another problem is that the typical religion teacher in a parrish knows very little about the Catholic faith and that includes so many “new age” nuns assigned to parrishes.

  • Dave September 27, 2012, 2:57 pm

    Interesting reading these comments. No wonder so many people are losing interest in Religion (just read comments above). Recent polls show a growing interest spirituality than ever, while denominational membership decreases yearly. Is it really about being right? Having the right answers? dogma? the Pope? Is Jesus going to ask us “Did you have the right belief?”

    It’s harder to practice orthopraxy than orthodoxy. Orthodoxy doesn’t ask you to change.

    • Ian September 28, 2012, 12:27 am

      And where do you find the answers to your questions?

      • Dave September 28, 2012, 10:22 am

        Ian – That’s a good question. Spiritually speaking, it could be through a book, a talk by someone (sermon possibly), maybe a gradual awareness (to a former question). But the answers are more intuitive than knowledge based. I’d add that I don’t have a lot of questions immediatlye answered, or at all. If we had all our questions answered we wouldn’t need faith – faith for the journey or faith to follow Jesus the best as one can understand. But, I can see it’s important to keep asking questions and to keep seeking God. I don’t think it ever stops but we grow greater into Him/Her or vice versa.

        I came across this site looking for something on Rohr and I consider him a great teacher. I’m not Catholic, but he hits the nail on a lot of areas in my experience.

        • Maureen January 18, 2013, 10:52 pm

          Dave,
          I am a Catholic but very disillusioned with religion. Rohr has made me more faithful to my Catholic faith ironically. He is truly a modern day Prophet full of wisdom!

  • Kristin November 20, 2012, 4:18 pm

    Thanks for this responsible and reliable review of Richard Rohr, Ian. I had only seen his enticing book titles & subjects but didn’t know much more about him. Thanks for being a trustworthy filter.

    • Maureen January 18, 2013, 10:54 pm

      Ian is anything but a trust worthy filter. He doesn’t get it. Father Rohr is a modern day Prophet ….those like Ian, if Jesus were to walk the earth today, would crucify him again.

  • James McC November 25, 2012, 5:17 pm

    My objection to Richard Rohr is that he is the authority. As an attorney and a Catholic, I am accustomed to hearing speakers or writers citing an authority. You demonstrate deference. You appeal to the Holy Spirit. In my limited knowledge of Rohr, he does not do that. Then, again, I am not sure whether Ronald Rolheiser does that either and he is not controversial. It seems like Rohr could put all these doubts to rest by showing some humility. I do not see any. I like when a priest explains the Gospel. I like thoughtful or provocative discussions. I like wisdom. I do not like the glory of a person rather I like the glory of God.

    • Ian November 25, 2012, 6:09 pm

      Actually, I just recently read Fr. Rolheiser’s newest book and there are several things in it about the Eucharist that are highly questionable including his statement that saying the Our Father during Mass is equivalent to going to Confession so you don’t have to skip Communion.

    • Shamrock November 25, 2012, 7:48 pm

      Actually there are more red flags on Rolheiser than at a bullfight!
      His *Catholicism* is of the modernist variety …not of Rome.
      Nor is Father Thomas Keating, of Centering Prayer *fame*…I
      think it is time that these priests who dissent from Truth in both print and public should be exposed for the charlatans they are in matters of Catholicity. They are making up a whole new religion.
      And they are taking advantage of well-meaning but very poorly catechized Catholics who are weak not so much in desire to be faithful as to what the faith consists in.

  • TRUTH&LIGHT November 26, 2012, 3:18 pm

    Ian,

    I am with you to me it is really concerning how many people are buying all this new- age non sense without blinking. We must pray the holy Rosary for enlightenment in the world.

  • Mark30339 December 15, 2012, 6:26 pm

    If God is calling us to be orthodox, why was his Son constantly challenging the orthodox establishment in Jerusalem? And if orthodoxy is so worthwhile, why was it filled with people who could not recognize the Son of God and could even join in having him crucified? For so many people, righteousness is about being identified clearly within the confines of orthodoxy — and once they draw the line they must protect their territory and drive out all those who contaminate their self-assurance. Righteousness is really about being in a deep and right relationship with our Creator. It is summed up nicely in verse 8 of Michah 6: we are to love justice and impose it upon our own conduct, we are to love mercy and shower it upon the conduct of others, and we are to continue our journey through this life honestly and humbly with our Creator God.

    I’m a cradle catholic and I had been attending Our Lady of Authority Worship quite long enough. My journey with God has predisposed me to welcome the loving embrace Fr. Rohr has for scripture. Is Aquinas & More honestly saying God’s message to them is that they must stand in the way of others who might be similarly moved by Richard Rohr and further denounce him as a heretic? Maybe you should rename yourself Caiaphas & More. I commend to you Archbishop Dom Helder Camara’s insights on the prodigal’s brother. And I challenge you to ponder how heretical the father is in Our Lord’s Parable of the Prodigal Son or the employer is in His Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard.

  • Shamrock December 16, 2012, 10:18 am

    Truth is either absolute or not. Jesus taught that He is Truth thereby making Truth absolute. Practically speaking that means
    that we cannot interpret Truth other than what Jesus says. Ken, Richard are two prime examples of what the Pope was pointing out when he stated that the great evil of our times (heresy) is relativizing the Truth. Thus Ken has his truth which he sees as the same as Richard’s truth. We have only one Truth. Jesus the Christ created the Church as the depository of his Truth here on earth untl He comes again. Anybody who denies the Church, denies the Truth, Jesus Christ. Some people don’t like that. Lucifer was the first to want his *own* version of the truth. Many today are so convinced of their own *importance* that they have followed the devil in their arrogancy. To know and acknowledge Truth is an act of humility, not arrogancy.

    • Mark30339 December 16, 2012, 11:13 am

      No doubt truth and values need to be simple and straightforward for our youngsters as they grow up. But the real learning is in all the exceptions — particularly when family members fall short of the values to which children were expected to conform. In time troubling questions arise like why did Jesus have to die, and why didn’t God stop the crucifixion. As an adult, one might ponder how troubling truth can be, truth like the Son of God was born a descendant of King David — the same David caught in adultery and a haunting murder conspiracy, and the same David who refused to execute the son who raped a half-sister and who wept bitterly over the loss of his first born who rose up in armed rebellion against him. God gives us a life filled with paradox and conflict, and the truth to be gleaned from scripture, life experience and prayer is not so easy to discern or apply. I’ve looked over the beatitudes and I haven’t found the one that says: “Blessed are the orthodoxy enforcers, for they shall sit at the right hand of God.”

    • Jewells December 16, 2012, 11:16 am

      Very well said. Truth being relative is what the new age is all about and the new age Jesus was an ascended master that was a reincarnation of many character in the Old Testament and other ancient spiritual leaders and he learned to do miracles from Eastern Mysticism where these Masters of the far east taught him the occult. All of it is a lie and found in the Edgar Cayce readings and the new age teaching and truth being relative is it’s mantra. It’s all a lie and so many are being fooled by it. Pray the Rosary because this movement is growing and does not like our Church. Pray for them.

  • Mark30339 December 16, 2012, 10:45 am

    The “Denial of Hell . . .” article linked above but no longer posted was available at the wayback machine and captured by me here:
    http://mark30339.blogspot.com/2012/12/preserving-post.html

    The key extract from Rohr’s post is this:
    “It often seems that religion’s most common concern is to find out what God does not like, where God is not present, and who God does approve for hating and excluding. Perhaps we are seeking to legitimate our own need to exclude and hate and dominate? Why else would we like a God who succeeds by punishing and always dominates? We have been told in recent years that God does not like homosexuals, God is not present in mosques and synagogues, and God is not bothered at all by the direct and collateral damage of our necessary wars. Abortion killing is the only killing that is inherently bad because the fetus is “innocent life.” This “morality” will only work if we can dare to think of ourselves as innocent! If legal protection and moral response depends on us being innocent or worthy, “then who can be saved?” What makes the Good News good news is precisely that God loves and defends unworthy and non-innocent life! Otherwise, you and I have little hope. And we can easily justify capital punishment, torture, euthanasia, and even pre-emptive wars against the unworthy ones—which is exactly what we have done. We have become the small god we worshiped.”

    • Ian December 16, 2012, 5:48 pm

      Thank you for finding the article. It actually makes Fr. Rohr look worse than I remembered:

      Caricature of the Catholic teaching on Hell and judgment, referring to God as he/she, caricaturing of the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, dismissal of the punishments of Hell as ridiculous.

      Yes, thank you for pointing out how far away from Catholic teaching Fr. Rohr is and the lengths he will go to to misrepresent the Truth to make a point.

      • Mark30339 December 19, 2012, 9:35 pm

        Obviously we will have to respectfully disagree. I think the captions you’ve put on your Rohr links are gross misrepresentations. For example your “dismissal of the fetus” label is outrageous. Richard is as saddened by the violence of abortion as anyone, what he questions is how pro-life postures on infants fail to translate into similar postures against killings in pre-emptive warfare, drone strikes, and the execution of prisoners. I’m not expecting you to agree with him, just portray him fairly.

        • Jewells December 19, 2012, 10:01 pm

          He does not understand the difference? Violence in warfare is equal to abortion? He makes them equal? He does not see a difference between the two?

  • Jewells December 16, 2012, 11:02 am

    YAY Shamrock ! Well said and I ran into alot of the truth being relative while spending time with new age friends years ago. I loved Richard Rohr at that time and was addicted to his audio tapes. He would be very entertaining and then take pot shots at the Pope or the Catholic Church and was really pushing socialism big time too but I was not educated on that topic well enough to understand that. I’m back home now with the Catholic Church and I love it and anybody that does not love it should transfer to the Episcopal Church….they would be happier . Why suffer by staying in a Church you do not agree with? There are plenty of options out there.

  • Sunsetwest December 18, 2012, 10:07 pm

    I am a young catholic woman who has a had ‘re-version’ back to my Catholic faith (so to speak) and it saddens me to see/hear some of the things which ‘Fr’ Richard Rohr has said in his DVDs about the Church. I was part of a bible study group where we stopped studying the Bible so as study Rohr’s teachings. I will say that i stopped going because one; the other participants and the facilitator did not appreciate my concerns/thoughts and made me feel as if I was some ‘backward orthodox conservative’ and two it didn’t seem we were going to be studying the Bible any time soon.
    I fully support Ian’s and others comments-if it offends people this is not my intention but of course everyone has a right to say what one believes-and Fr Richard Rohr is someone who promotes this so really no one should be feeling upset about people voicing their opinions on this forum.

  • Shamrock January 18, 2013, 2:24 pm

    Ken…If you believe that Jesus is the Truth and the Light and you adhere to all ( not just what you find comfortable) His teachings,
    then how can you be so dismissive of Church authority and also
    follow Jesus’s words in Matthew 16: 18-19 where clearly Jesus
    indicates with words his desire to establish a Church, through Peter, to teach and preserve the Truth until He comes again. You seem most inconsistent with faith in Jesus but not in the Church He established. That is basis for the heresy known as modernism and
    you seem to have fallen for it. The danger for people weak in their faith is to listen to others who have left the narrow way Jesus speaks about for the wide path that leads to perdition. Worse yet, to ignore the warnings about the books and *retreats* given by these heretics, like Rohr, that seem to contain enough of the truth that one reading them ( or listening at retreats) thinks *everything* that they espouse must also be true . It sounds good and tickles the ears and delights the senses and few discern the difference. Thus the Church in all charity gives warning. I am grateful to Ian and others who are willing to stand up and take the verbal assault from those who think they know Truth and are only looking at their own reflection…their own version or in this case, Rohr’s version of the Truth. Thanks Ian for being a light to the path to Truth. Unfortunately some prefer the darkness and only the grace of God
    will be their salvation. Even then some will refuse it.

  • Maureen January 18, 2013, 10:46 pm

    Ian…..you are a person who is living in illusion. I will pray for you.

  • Jo February 20, 2013, 4:30 pm

    Hello,
    I was Googling Richard Rohr and came across this little Beauty!
    Amidst the fear and loathing there were a few interesting little comments about Gospel Truth and the Church being faithful to Christ’s teachings. Might I ask where in the Gospels He agreed that Mary would appear and whether setting up little statues in her honour would point to God? I mean when we’re talking theology and truth and Fr Richard’s explorations, it would be good to know how I might understand what is truth and how is it found?

    • Ian February 21, 2013, 12:11 pm

      From your two comments it is clear that you are part of the Fr. Rohr cult and not actually Catholic.

      • Jo February 21, 2013, 4:19 pm

        From my two comments you can deduce nothing.I haven’t been led astray. I asked a question about doctrine. I played Devil’s Advocate. I’m a card carrying and fully paid up RC. Just wondered how you decided what was kosher. The Church hasn’t excommunicated him as far as I know. You seem fearful. Great theologians challenge as Jesus did. I know little about R Rohr. You make me want to know more!!!bi might come to the same conclusion as you; who knows? But I’d rather find out for myself than trust your judgement now that I’ve seen how you carry on!

    • Sunsetwest February 22, 2013, 10:15 pm

      Im no theologian or academic but when I see/hear people dismissing ‘Mary’ (the Mother of Jesus) its a bit concerning. As Catholics we understand Mary to be our help and advocate of the human race. We do not worship her and place her before God. If we look at nearly all the lives of the Saints in time they all had a special relationship with Mary-because She ALWAYS directs us to Jesus. Mary has and never wanted to be the centre point but She was vital in being the vessel in which Jesus was able to come to us…we see this clearly in the Gospels particularly at the ‘Wedding at Cana’.
      “The more we honour the Blessed Virgin, the more we honour Jesus Christ, because we honour Mary only that we may the more perfectly honour Jesus, since we go to her only as the way by which we are to find the end we are seeking, which is Jesus”-St Louis de Montfort.
      Mary teaches us how to live out the Gospel message especially those about love and compassion…

      • Jo February 23, 2013, 3:18 pm

        Mary is indeed Christ Bearer. We honour her.
        I have seen with my own eyes, adoration of Our Lady that borders on the blasphemous. I will not pretend otherwise for the sake of quiet. in addition my own M in Law preferred to go to Mary with her prayer than God because she felt God would listen to Mary rather than her. How sad.

  • Charles February 21, 2013, 8:06 pm

    Its amazing how some people set themselves up in Christs’ place, and make idols of the church and god. Hatred and fundamentalism are powerful tools to be led astray by – I’ll pray for your salvation.

  • Becky February 22, 2013, 11:50 pm

    Jo, indulgences are not a doctrine of the Church. (You gave yourself away with that one). I believe we are called to live the values of love and compassion not simply explore them.
    Is it possible to “explore” Truth???

    • Jo February 23, 2013, 2:17 am

      APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
      OF POPE PAUL VI

      INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA

      WHEREBY THE REVISION
      OF SACRED INDULGENCES IS PROMULGATED

      Chapter 1

      1. The doctrine and practice of indulgences which have been in force for many centuries in the Catholic Church have a solid foundation in divine revelation(1) which comes from the Apostles and “develops in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit,” while “as the centuries succeed one another the Church constantly moves forward toward the fullness of divine truth until the words of God reach their complete fulfillment in her.”(2)

    • Jo February 23, 2013, 2:23 am

      Becky
      I am RC. I am not a cradle catholic and therefore I suppose there might be the odd time I am unaware of terms. After thirty years I feel I’m still learning which is good. I don’t think it’s helpful when folk like yourself get picky and make assumptions. Not kind and not Christian. “Gave yourself away”! Pay attention to yourself please Becky.
      Truth is truth. Yes. However we don’t have truth conferred upon us; as Aquinas said, faith seeks understanding.
      Also please see below.

      • Jo February 23, 2013, 2:25 am

        Above!

    • Jo February 24, 2013, 2:56 am

      Indulgences are Doctrine since Doctrine is Teaching. I’m really loathe to point score but if we followed Ian’s logic does that make the Cradle Catholic look like a “Fundamentalist Protestant” for failing to know that?!?!?! Sorry, couldn’t resist a little ‘Touche’!

  • Jo February 23, 2013, 2:57 am

    I’m going to write something quite strong now and I write it from a place of sadness. I meet people who have been taught what the church teaches but not that God loves them with a depth beyond imagining.
    What emanates from some if these posts is a relationship with the Church. But faith is a relationship with God and a testament to the power of love in our lives.
    I have met some awesome people in the Church on my journey as a Catholic & they have inspired me. My life has taken an amazing turn because of the inspiration of their life & faith. I ask that if we are to be taken seriously as Catholic people of faith that we pay attention to how we treat people who struggle or question and also who disagree with us. Jesus would want that.

  • Shamrock February 23, 2013, 8:20 am

    About those who depart from what the Church teaches Pope Benedict XVI has said: ( and the faithful would be wise to take heed)

    ” It is important to recognize dissent for what it is
    and not to mistake it for a mature contribution to a
    balanced and wide-ranging debate.”

    Fr Richard Rohr is “off the track” in terms of our faith and is misleading many guillable persons who seek his “warm-fuzzy”
    comforting message of false witness in place of the proverbial Cross that Christ presents as a the Way to Salvation.

    • Jo February 23, 2013, 3:26 pm

      It is right to be truthful about what one feels or thinks. Otherwise there can be no discussion. When we teach our children we listen to their insights and we value them. We do our teaching also in the way we respond to their questioning. Likewise when people speak of their fears and anxieties about faith, about God, about the Church. We create a loving and safe place whilst knowing what the Church teaches. That is how it is done. It is not done by aggressively shouting them down and telling them they are in error if they can’t believe. Their faith journey is unique and God is quite up to task in the taking of hands and bringing people home.

  • Becky February 23, 2013, 8:54 am

    Jo I too am a cradle Catholic who is going through the struggle which is life. And never pretend to be any type of theologian.
    After all these years I have learned, a life of Faith is not nearly as hard as we humans try to make it. There are plenty of self help books and speakers out there. Fr. Rohr speaks lofty words and throws in a Bible verse here to make it sound authentic. But under all the loftiness I find it all New Age chatter. That is my personal opinion.
    I spoke to my Priest about why the Church has not excommunicated Rohr and I found his answer quite charitable but befuddling. He informed me that the Church has chosen, in recent history, not to take that negative approach. That She affirms publications and that if one’s teachings are consistent with the Church you will find the book contains the seal of his Bishop on the title page.
    I find it befuddling because I NEVER would have known that if I had not asked him….
    St Theresa teaches us of “the little way”. How simple and difficult. Such is life this side of Heaven.

  • Becky February 23, 2013, 9:01 am

    Sorry Jo I misread that you were a cradle Catholic. My bad.

    • Jo February 23, 2013, 3:11 pm

      Thank you Becky. I had a wonderful Christian upbringing but was received into the Church thirty years ago!
      PS I am not pro or against R Rohr. I merely wish to read for myself and decide.

  • Shamrock February 23, 2013, 4:49 pm

    Jo….Yes, but recall John Cardinal Henry Newman said, ” Ten thousand difficulties do not make a single doubt”! In this year of faith we can learn so much from those who teach us how to be obedient to Christ’s call. He has promised if we but seek we shall find, if we ask it (faith) will be gven to us. Faith and trust go hand in hand.We all will struggle toward the goal and have difficulties but we perservere through them, like Paul and all the saints. It does not help if along the way we run across a priest, like Father Rohr, who in his struggle (s) with the truth of our faith leads others astray. Because he is a priest, people will take him at his word which is scandelous and ruinous for souls as he clearly dissents. It
    is an obligation to warn others of the pitfalls of his books and writings wherein they are not in keeping with the church’s teaching. To be Catholic is a way of life, a difficult and arduous way for it is
    the way of sacrificial love. The road to perdition Jesus warned is wide and smooth and easy. The road we follow Jesus on is narrow
    and difficult and many will turn away in anquish and sorrow. We need the sacraments of the church to give us strength and holy, devout priests to bring them to us. We must pray that Father Rohr
    will use his talents to that end.

  • Shamrock February 23, 2013, 4:59 pm

    Jo…I do not know your MIL but surely she was merely beseeching Mary to aide her in her requests knowing that it is God Who is All Mighty and Powerful …and her Creator. Mary is like all mothers
    in her love for us and is a comforting presence to know she is our Mother in Heaven. She is the *vessel* through whom God entered
    the world ( Incarnation) and she continues to bring Jesus to us in]
    our daily prayers. You are having difficulty with Mary perhaps because you do not accept this teaching which is very much a part of Catholic belief and practice. Many have this struggle because
    they struggles with their own mother who may have not be very maternal….just as some struggle as seeing God the Father as a loving and merciful God…because they struggled with their own earthly fathers. This may not be your case but know that if you reach out to Mary you will grow closer to Jesus.

    • Jo February 24, 2013, 12:18 am

      No, Shamrock you do not know my MI Law! You will just have to believe me & not decide that you know what I am REALLY saying!
      The Church herself speaks of Idolatry of Mary. It is possible. She speaks to us of Jesus but she is not in place of him. Sadly there are those who don’t grasp that because of poor teaching.

  • Maureen February 23, 2013, 7:50 pm

    Can anyone tell me how I can unsubscribe from this site? Thank you.

    • Jo February 24, 2013, 12:22 am

      Maureen, I cannot find how to do this myself! I am weary of being drawn into unedifying discussion. I don’t want to see anymore comments in my email box because I’m beginning to feel annoyed. And it’s Lent!

    • Shamrock February 24, 2013, 10:29 am

      Yes, Maureen, just click on the ural below the comment you receive, that says to unsubscribe….I don’t blame you for it
      is getting a bit *insane* here….God bless you during this Lenten season and always!.

      • Maureen February 24, 2013, 10:46 am

        Thank you Shamrock. And God bless you too!

  • Jo February 24, 2013, 3:10 am

    Scripture and Tradition do work hand in hand in slightly complicated way.

  • Jo February 24, 2013, 3:11 am

    Scripture and tradition go hand in hand…

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