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Why We Don't and Won't Ever Carry Richard Rohr

by Ian on March 16, 2011

At Aquinas and More we have always had a policy that we will only carry product that is true to Catholic teaching. Why carry product that undermines the Church unless you want to destroy your own business? Could you imagine Coke or Pepsi selling literature or sending out spokesmen that praise the competition as being just as good as their product or mislead people about what their product is? For some reason there are wildly popular authors who do just that within the Catholic Church.

One such author is Richard Rohr. He is a staple for St. Anthony Messenger Press and gives retreats across the country. I'll be blunt. Fr. Rohr's ideas about salvation are heretical. He just published a new book, Why Be Catholic, which I spent some time looking through. I may have missed it, but amid all of the talk about the need for community and the Church's position on social justice I couldn't find anything about Truth or salvation. It seems to me that any discussion of "Why be Catholic"? needs to start and end with salvation and Truth. Otherwise, the Church is just a social club like the Elks.

Here are some links explaining Father Rohr's "theology". Richard Rohr is a new-age heretic who wraps his heresy in biblical quotes. Here are some samples:

 

{ 146 comments… read them below or add one }

Joann May 14, 2011 at 11:38 am

I am glad to see that there is someone who agrees with me that Richard Rohr’s teachings have serious theological problems. We had a good Bible Study group at our Parish until the man leading it brought in some books by Rorh. I voiced my opinions that I wanted to study about Jesus and not Richard Rohr but not one person agreed with me. After that, it became all about Rohr. His work with the Enneagram personality system is, to me, another way to study horoscopes. I believe that he is New Age. Our new Pastor stopped the Bible Study and I don’t know why because I dropped the class but I think that we are better off without a Bible Study class than to be exposed to the heretical ideas of Richard Rohr.

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beth cioffoletti August 8, 2011 at 8:06 am

Oh come on. Fr. Richard Rohr is probably the best Catholic teacher in the USA. He explains Catholic theology in a way that is relevant, redeeming and healing, and 100% true to Catholic teaching.

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Ian August 8, 2011 at 11:31 pm

If by 100% true to Catholic teaching you mean heretical then we are in complete agreement.

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The Ranter March 29, 2012 at 2:39 pm

Naw, I’ll take Fr. Barron any day. At least I know that Fr. Barron is an awesome speaker, and faithful to the Church and Her teachings.

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beth cioffoletti March 29, 2012 at 4:55 pm

Have you ever listened to Fr. Rohr? He is pretty awesome.

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Ian March 29, 2012 at 5:09 pm

Sounding awesome and speaking Truth awesomely aren’t always the same thing.

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Shamrock October 23, 2012 at 4:34 pm

Sorry Beth, but you need to heed the words of both Paul and Peter who warned against “false teachers among you, who
will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the
Master who brought them, bringing upon themselves swift
destruction. And many will follow them in their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.” ( 2Peter 2:1-2) Paul also again and again warns
us against these false teachers who tickle the ears by telling us what we want to hear ..rather than the truth.

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TRUTH&LIGHT November 26, 2012 at 3:00 pm

That’s exactly what I am also thinking, this is why I am also on this website after hearing some of his sermons. No matter how amusing they sound at first very awe and deep I think he has really lost. I now believe it is more likely that his is a false teacher coming. Who knows maybe this is a sign before the end of times, but I highly doubt it. It is simply a poor San Franciscan Monk that is very confused.

Jewells September 19, 2011 at 6:54 pm

Why be Catholic is a question he needs to answer for himself…..because he is not and he knows it. He really does know it.

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Charles December 10, 2011 at 8:42 pm

Unfortunately, some are so blinded by the plank in their own eye that they worry about the splinters of others. The comments above are filled with hatred, arrogance and thistles of the law. I’ll pray for all of you.

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Ian December 12, 2011 at 12:13 am

Telling the truth is love, not hatred.

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Doc Kimble March 29, 2012 at 2:43 pm

Thank you, Charles….for your prayers….God hears all prayers….even those of pagans and heretics….when he hears one coming from a broken and contrite heart…. even spoken to a pagan god,….He says, ” I’ll take this one, Satan.”
“Doc” Kimble
Recovering Anti-Catholic

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Joann December 15, 2011 at 11:59 pm

I was drawn to Ian’s comment that “telling the truth is love, not hatred” because it goes back to John’s Gospel and Pilate’s question when Jesus appeared before him, “What is truth? Pilate had just asked Jesus if He was the King of the Jews and He answered, “You say that I am a king. For this I was born and and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” Jesus, Himself, said so.

When I was in the first grade we were taught about the Holy Trinity. We repeated , “The Father is God and the first Person of the Trinity; The Son is God and the second Person of the Trinity; the Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Trinity.” Yet, I just watched a video of Father Rohr and Judy Valente in which he said, “ROHR: It’s not correct to say Jesus is God. Now, don’t run and report me to the bishop, all right? It’s not correct to say that — Jesus is the union of the human and the divine. That’s different. I’ve been a priest 43 years. Most of the Catholics Christians I’ve met would for all practical purposes believe Jesus is God only, and we are human only. We missed the big point. The point is the integration, both in Jesus and ourselves.”
Is Rohr comparing us to Jesus? I was taught that Jesus had two natures; the nature of God and the nature of man. That Jesus became man to redeem us since no human was ever able to keep all the commandments. I was taught that we have only the nature of man. Is Rohr trying to tell us that we were born with the nature of God also? The Arian Heresy, for which the Nicene Creed was written, denied the Divinity of Christ and was fought valiantly by St. Athanacius of Alexandria because Constantine, who helped to bring Christianity into the the main stream, didn’t understand the serious theological error of the teaching of a priest name Arias. But this “truth” of Richard Rohr is even worse, if that’s possible, because it insinuates that we have a divine nature and this is not taught by the Catholic Church. Let us follow the teachings of the Apostles who knew Jesus personally. Let us listen to the voice of Our Savior, Jesus Christ.

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LM December 28, 2011 at 12:15 am

what is the best way to get Rohrs books out of a Catholic Shrine dedicated to the Blessed Mother that is in a diocese but is run by the Montfort Mission Priests. The Priest who runs the Shrine says Rohr is his mentor and want his books in the book store. How do you go about getting rid of this heretical garbage that will lead countlesss souls astray not to meniton the poor soul of the Priest that is doing this and allowing it to go on. They also have a drumming prayer session of men and woman that orginated from Rohr that people sit around and drum on drums and pray and the Priest in charge put a huge drum in front of a huge Crucifix of our Lord in the Church in honor of the drumming coming from Rohrs thoughts on praying. The Bishop in the diocese visited the Shrine and the drum is still there as well as Rohrs books. Do you write to the Pope, Do you contact the Montfort Missions, Do you write to the Bishop. People have showed their dissaproval of this but since the Montfort Priest who runs the Shrine thinks Rohr is his mentor this is how the situation is played out. Very sad situation. Bazzar how Satan can get in all areas of the Church. What would you do? Also the BIshop carries Rohrs books for a three year religion program for people who want some sort of theological certificate to work in the church. When my friend voiced her opinion in the wrongness of this, guess who had to go thru the ringer like she was wrong. My friend? Yes you are correct. I cant believe it has gotten this far, but it is not surprising since our diocse is one of the most liberal ones in the nation. but still something needs to be done.

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Ian December 28, 2011 at 12:55 am

If both the bishop and the priest like Fr. Rohr, you really don’t have a chance getting rid of the books except through spiritual means. I would suggest prayer as the best option in this situation.

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Shamrock October 23, 2012 at 4:40 pm

If the Bishop of your diocese has done nothing after you contacted him regarding your concerns, the next step I believe is to contact the Papal Nuncio’s Office which I believe is in Washington, DC. Also if you have a Diocesan newspaper write a letter to the editor there…and if that gets no results or is ignored I would write a letter to the editor of the local newspapers so that perhaps negative publicity might start things rolling. While doing this pray to the Holy Spirit to guide you . At your Confirmation you were made a Soldier for Christ….Your battle lines have been drawn. You must continue to act!

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beth cioffoletti December 28, 2011 at 7:22 am

I find Fr. Richard Rohr to be a more gifted preacher than writer. You might want to listen to some of his tapes or watch the DVD’s of his retreats. Our Centering Prayer group just listened to a weekend retreat he did with Trappist priest, Fr. Thomas Keating, entitled Centering Prayer: Healing the Violence Within. It was powerfully transforming.

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Padraig December 28, 2011 at 12:13 pm

Read 1Corinthians 13:12. God is far more interested in people than principles. Believing that we have all and see all of the truth is “heresy”. The truth is God will take care of Fr Rohr and you and I in HIS own time. There are far greater causes to fight for then what some call “heresy”. Real heresy is not loving your neighbour as yourself. I concur with Charles’ words above.

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Ian December 28, 2011 at 12:26 pm

God is truth. If we don’t preach truth we aren’t loving our neighbor. If we fail to correct our neighbor (also in the Bible) we aren’t loving him either.

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Padraig December 29, 2011 at 10:18 pm

It seems there’s quite a rush to preach to and to correct our neighbour. “If we don’t preach truth we aren’t loving our neighbour. If we fail to correct our neighbor (also in the Bible) we aren’t loving him either.”. This does not appear in the Bible. There is no mention anywhere of this. I am open to correction. Please quote the scripture that says this.

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Ian December 30, 2011 at 12:55 pm

Luke 17:3 “Take heed to yourselves. If thy brother sin against thee, reprove him: and if he do penance, forgive him.”

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Joann December 28, 2011 at 3:16 pm

This is in response to LM. Several Years ago I volunteered to help with the Religious Education for the students who were attending public schools and we were required to be catechized and we also had to be finger printed, which had not been required when I had volunteered many years before that. I was fine with that, but I had a problem with the catachist from the beginning when she said, “Jesus was a man just like us.” I waited for her to say, in everything except sin” so when she didn’t say it I said it for her. She said, We don’t know that.” I said, Yes, we do, It is in one of the Epistles.” I said, “Jesus is God, He can’t sin.” She countered that He had been tempted and I said that He had been tempted from without, but never from within. I asked if she was saying that Jesus might have thought in his mind that when a merchant turned his back He would steal an apple. She said that it was possible and when I protested, every woman in that class told me to shut up. Many of these women received Holy Communion every day and some were Eucharistic Ministers as I am.

I found it hard to stay but I did and when the “teacher” left, one of the women remarked that she was a wonderful teacher. I said, “Wonderful? She said that Jesus could sin, I didn’t even think she sounded like a Catholic.” One of the women, who is married to a Deacon, said that I was the one who didn’t sound like a Catholic. I asked why and she told me that it was because I read the Bible and Catholics don’t read the Bible. I just told her that I thought it would be a good idea for everyone to read the Bible. She moved away, but came back for the funeral of an old friend. I was then able to show her the Fourth Eucharistic prayer in which it states that “Jesus was a man like us, in everything except sin.” She looked surprised but thanked me I had also reported to the nun who arranged the class and she was appalled and said that she would talk to them. She later told me that they had told her that I should not have questioned the teacher in front of the class. So, I guess it would be better for the class to go out and tell other people that, “even Jesus sinned” than to embarrass the teacher and defend the Divinity of Jesus.

For it was St. Paul who said also:  ”Brothers I beg you to be on watch against those who cause dissension and scandal, contrary to the teaching you have received. Avoid their company. Such men serve, not Christ Our Lord, but their own bellies, and they deceive the simpleminded with their smooth and flattering speech…I want you to be wise…Then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet.” (Romans 16:17-20).

As Ian said, we must pray that those in charge will see the errors in Rohr’s teachings because it all becomes about Rhor and not about Jesus. We must conform to the Church and to the teachings of Christ, not make them more palatable to our desires. If you check Rohr’s website you see a sensuality that runs contrary to what Christ wants of us. St. Paul lays it all out in his letters. God is the same yesterday, tomorrow and forever. Christ is the truth and the truth is that He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN
SON OF GOD. There are religions coming our way that claim that God had many sons. We must cling to Jesus because He is our Mediator with the Father. Our Blessed Mother tells us to pray, pray, pray and to do whatever Christ asks of us. Why does Rhor tell us that we can call God our Mother? Why not do everything the way that Jesus has asked us to?

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Jewells December 28, 2011 at 3:23 pm

Check out http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org and also http://www.crossveil.org they are both interesting websites and worth looking into.

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Joann January 4, 2012 at 1:49 pm

This is in response to Padraig and the reference to l Cor., 13, v.12 and his reference to Heresy.
This is the definition of heresy according to Webster’s Dictionary;
b : denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church

It is not an opinion. The Catholic Church does not teach that “Jesus is the union of the human
and the divine.” That is Rohr’s opinion. I am defending the teaching of the Church because the
divinity of Christ cannot be denied and neither can His human nature be denied. They are
separate. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary in order to redeem us and it is an essential truth of
the Roman Catholic Church.

When I went to Bible Study classes, we learned that you can use the words of any of the writers
to prove a point but it may not be the specific point that the writer had in mind. In reading
I Corinthians, 13, v. 12 the reading guide says this:
The hymn of love in I Cor., 13, inserted within the context of chapters 12 and 14 on the variety
of gifts may not be a Pauline composition but something borrowed from Stoic sources, which he
found helpful to illustrate the unity that should characterize the Corinthians. It goes on to say
in Chapter 11 Paul alluded to the divisions between the wealthy and the poor at the common
table. It also says that love remains the most important of all the spiritual gifts of the church,
but that doesn’t mean that we would not tell someone that a is teaching is heretical.
I will add the definition of Stoic :
capitalized : a member of a school of philosophy founded by Zeno of Citium about 300 b.c. holding that the wise man should be free from passion, unmoved by joy or grief, and submissive to natural law.
It was St. Paul who said also:  ”Brothers I beg you to be on watch against those who cause dissension and scandal, contrary to the teaching you have received. Avoid their company. Such men serve, not Christ Our Lord, but their own bellies, and they deceive the simpleminded with their smooth and flattering speech…I want you to be wise…Then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet.” (Romans 16:17-20).

I used the Catholic Study Bible, Second Edition, New American Bible, Editors Donald Senior and
John J. Collins, Oxford Press

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Pie in the Sky March 29, 2012 at 9:15 am

As a fan of the middle ages, I’m thrilled to see a return to a Catholic obsession with heresy. As a person who is incapable of thinking for myself, I really need dead people to tell me exactly what to think.

Jesus never burped, by the way, because he was God. Keep it simple, right? Am I right? Am I?

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Ian March 29, 2012 at 2:22 pm

You have it backwards. Catholicism has an obsession with Truth.

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Kevin March 29, 2012 at 4:09 pm

I must respect the teachings of the Church, but heresies have been a challenge throughout Her history. This one is not worth the bother.

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Marcy K. March 29, 2012 at 7:17 pm

Some here might find this article comparing Fr. Rohr’s teaching with that of the the church helpful: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6819&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=856000 Typing in Rohr in the Catholic Culture searchbar also brings up more info. I agree with Aquinas & More that if you are going to be Catholic, if you are going to support the Church, you should be spreading authentic teaching – not what some people WANT the Church to teach – but what it actually does teach. And we have a responsibility to other Catholics to spread the correct information. There is enough bad theology out there – and has been for 40 years – that it explains why the Church in the Western world is the way it is. Catholics have a right to know what their Church really teaches. If you don’t agree with the Church then you need to educate yourself better and take it to prayer. The Church has had 2000 years of experience and has seen kingdoms rise and fall while she carries on the mission of educating and nurturing those who follow Jesus Christ – she teaches the Truth and knows better then the occasional dissident priest. I want to educate myself in the Truth, not read what people who have fallen for the lies of the culture have to say.

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Ann April 5, 2012 at 12:26 pm

Today is Holy Thursday I was just reading a facebook post by a Protestant of Rohr’s meditation of the day, which calls the Eucharistic a “priestly cult.” I can’t stand the guy

There’s no real story of the Last Supper in the Gospel of John as we find it in the other Gospels. There is no passing of the bread or passing of the cup. Instead we come upon the story of Jesus on his knees washing the Apostles’ feet. Really quite amazing, and even more amazing that we never made the foot washing into a Sacrament! It is much more explicit in the Scriptures than many other actions we made into sacraments.

Perhaps John realized that after seventy years the other Gospels had been read. He wanted to give a theology of the Eucharist that revealed the meaning behind the breaking of the bread. He made it into an active ritual of servanthood and solidarity, instead of the priestly cult that it has largely become.

Peter symbolizes all of us as he protests, “You will never wash my feet!” (John 13:8). But Jesus answers, “If I do not wash you, you can have nothing in common with me.” That is strong! We all find it hard to receive undeserved love from another. For some reason it is very humiliating to the ego. We all want to think we have earned any love that we get by our worthiness or attractiveness. So Jesus has to insist on being the servant lover. Thank God, Peter surrenders, but it probably takes him the rest of his life to understand.-Fr.Richard Rohr

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Bill M. January 18, 2013 at 12:54 am

I will grant you that the line about the ‘priestly cult’ is a bit jarring, but the rest of the passage is rather lovely. In fact, it makes me want to look into more of Richard Rohr’s work. Thank you for the referral.

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Ken April 19, 2012 at 11:54 pm

I don’t claim to know much, but as a feeling human being, I do know this- what Richard does for others requires a fearless walk of agape, or ‘unconditional love’, the kind of love that Jesus demonstrated and that we were asked by Jesus Himself to emulate when He said “follow me”.
To be a Christian literally means to be a “Christ” which is one who aspires to adopt Jesus’ attitude, not to just be a ‘fan’ of what He did.
When I see Richard, I see a man doing the things Jesus asked us to do, and if his actions offend you, perhaps you should be asking yourself what it is you’re afraid of, and what is it that you have that is so threatened by any one who withholds their love from nobody who is willing to accept it, just as Jesus/God does.
Are you a ‘fan or a ‘follower’?

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Ian April 20, 2012 at 12:07 am

Fr. Rohr has chosen to make Christ in his own image. He isn’t a follower.

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Ken April 20, 2012 at 1:23 am

That’s just a blank statement, you’ll have to qualify that with… something. Tell me, whose actions did I describe inaccurately, Richards or Jesus’?

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Ian April 20, 2012 at 9:02 am

You didn’t bother to read the post, did you?

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Ken April 20, 2012 at 9:31 am

That’s not an asnwer. Appearently you didn’t bother to read the Bilble.
You know a sure sign that a person has made Christ into their own image, Ian? When their Jesus just happens to hate the same people they hate.
So I ask you once again, whose actions did I describe inaccurately, Richard’s or Jesus’?

jon August 22, 2012 at 5:53 am

Ken, couldn’t have said it any better myself. It’s nice to know there are some like-minded people out there when there are plenty of folks, like Ian, who are threatened by this wisdom teacher of our time and constantly act out of fear. What are you trying to protect Ian? What are you afraid of? It’s always the ego which acts out of fear.

Barb May 18, 2012 at 9:03 pm

AMEN! Why do we have to make it so difficult, we try to live like Christ, nothing more, nothing less. I will listen and admire any human being who tries to make it easier for us to live like Christ. Richard Rohr is a living example of someone who understands this basic concept. He is still human, but yet is trying to live and like Christ. We all have to ask ourselves the question, are we trying to live like Christ?

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Jewells April 20, 2012 at 9:43 am

YAY Ian ! That’s the whole point ! And they don’t believe in it and I have heard Richard rip into the Church many a time.

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Ken April 20, 2012 at 10:03 am

I rest my case.
Jesus didn’t have the same attitude towards others that you have, and this is a problem for you. The irony of you accusing others of making Jesus into something He’s not, is staggering.

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Jewells April 20, 2012 at 10:09 am

What was the attitude of Jesus towards the Pharrasee’s and the Scribes ? Not good at all. It was a genuine negative attitude not unconditional love. I’m just sayin….read it for yourself.

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Ken April 20, 2012 at 10:38 am

I have read it, as you have, an you are absolulely correct. The problem Jesus had with the Pharrasees and the Scribes was their attitude that God’s Love is conditional and is only accessible to those who qualify to receive it, meaning only Jews. Jesus’ attitude is that God’s love is unconditional and accessible to all the world, Jew and Gentile, and all one has to do receive this accessible Love, is to accept it. Jesus didn’t try to qualify those who came to Him to be healed, He didn’t ask them where they were from or if they believed the same things He did, He loved them right where theywere at.
Which of these two attitudes closer represents what Richard has done with his life?

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Jon April 20, 2012 at 7:11 pm

Ian,

“Jesus declared that he was the Truth”?

Says who? Were you there? How do you know? Many biblical scholars have provided enough textual analysis to show changes in the meaning of “scripture” from one translation to the next. Not only that, but any history passed down by spoken word and handwritten word faces inevitable distortion over time. There is substantial evidence that the gospels were not even written until decades after the crucifixion of Christ. Play “the telephone game” and one can easily understand how many details got lost or muddled over the course of that time.

So how does one reconcile this fact?

Hopefully not by resorting to the common “divine inspiration” belief. That notion holds little water when you study the history of the biblical texts themselves. Scribes deliberately changed words, phrases, or entire chapters in the bible, adding and deleting over the centuries. What then does the dogmatic believer call that? Divine editing?

Considering such things, one tends to refrain from using the word Truth when speaking about the bible, or any so-called holy text. To insist such a thing, that whatever text is the Truth, is to cultivate an attitude of intolerance and perhaps even extremism. Those are often the symptoms of people who kill in the name of their God.

The lucky thing for us is that we exist in a time and a place that allows open discussion of our thoughts and beliefs. For Truth, many would argue, does not come from without but from within.

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Ian April 20, 2012 at 11:40 pm

If you are going to deny that there is Truth then you really need to go comment somewhere else. There are plenty of atheist boards where you will fit right in and plenty of apologetics boards where you can air your tired arguments as many have done before you.

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Jon April 21, 2012 at 12:47 am

You strictly adhere to Church dogma. But which dogma is it?

Is it the current dogma that allows usury? That allows religious freedom?

Or is it the dogma from a century ago that prohibited the two?

Maybe it was the Church dogma that accepted the buying, selling, and owning of human beings. That dogma was only a couple centuries ago.

Do you believe that the bible is the holy Word of God? Then explain addressing your priest as ‘Father’ when Mathew 23:9 strictly forbids calling anyone but God your ‘Father.’

Do you believe Church dogma to be incontrovertible truth? If so, why has it changed?

I am interested in hearing your honest response to these questions. Not a smarmy retort.

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Ian April 21, 2012 at 1:04 am

All of your questions are straight from the atheist talking points. There are plenty of books and websites that address each of these questions and I suggest you go read those as they have done a far better job answering them than I could.

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Hugh April 20, 2012 at 11:10 pm

To the ancient Hebrews Jesus was a heretic.

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Maureen June 10, 2012 at 5:52 pm

Exactly!

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beth cioffoletti April 21, 2012 at 7:57 am

I have been listening to Fr. Richard Rohr for more than 20 years and he has led me more deeply into Catholic truth. He is a priest in good standing with the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church, in her wisdom, knowing that people are in different places at different times in their journeys, allows for broad expressions of Truth. Some people need a more literal and rigid expression. Others want a more dynamic and open expression.

Fr. Rohr does not negate or deny any of the Truths that the Catholic Church teaches. For me, he helps to make these truths real and relevant.

Why waste energy calling him a heretic? Better to express your own knowing of Catholic truth as sincerely and honestly as you can, and then let it all be.

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David June 20, 2012 at 8:31 pm

Rohr writes: “Only a truly cosmic Christ is adequate to the breadth of our problems and the depth of our hopes today….I personally do not believe that Jesus came to found a separate religion- as much as he came to present a universal message of vulnerability and foundational unity that is necessary for all religions, the human soul, and history itself to survive.”

http://www.lospequenos.org/RohrDossier/Material/9.3%20Cosmic%20Christ.pdf

This is New Age garbage.

Fulton Sheen said nudity was always a sign of demonic influence. The devil doesn’t always come in the form of red tights you know…

http://www.lospequenos.org/RohrDossier/Material/13.2.a%20NWM%20Rohr%20Talk.pdf

What of this is of Christ? Nothing.

His group also partakes in gay parades. The sin of Sodom (not to mention the story in the bible) is a sin that cries out to heaven (Catechism)…

This site features a dossier about Father Richard Rohr’s activities as well as those activities related to the Center of Action and Contemplation of which Fr. Rohr is founding director.

http://www.lospequenos.org/RohrDossier/

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Jon June 25, 2012 at 4:11 pm

Nudity… a sign of demonic influence? Such a belief can only be rooted in extreme discomfort with one’s own body. Be honest, are you afraid of what others think of yours?

Do you shower fully clothed?

Perhaps you are disappointed that babies are born in the nude.

Don’t knock it til you try it.

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Becky June 22, 2012 at 11:08 pm

Pray tell me what Richard Rhor actually does for people that is so Christ -like? I have read some of his work, listened to some of his sermons and watched some videos and am underwhelmed with his new age-ish ramblings. He throws in scripture references to make the Jungian thought seam spiritual.
I’ve read where the CAC has a budget of anywhere between 1-5 million dollars. That is a heck of a lot of money……are thousands of people being fed? Are houses being built? Are medicines being distributed?
I believe that is the form of social justice Jesus would support.

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Damien July 1, 2012 at 9:20 am

Ian, after 9/11 I (reluctantly) attended a talk by Richard Rohr at a Catholic Church in Phoenix. Whatever you choose to believe about him, his writing/teaching has led me deeper into my faith journey and it brought me back to the Church (after a 12 year absence and lots of searching).
My understanding is that his teaching has undergone intense scrutiny by Rome and he has been proven ‘orthodox’.

I’m not here to argue – since you hold the truth ;-) I am posting to bear witness to the effect this man has had on my life and walk with God.
Peace.

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Maureen July 2, 2012 at 9:17 am

I’m with you Damian…Richard Rohr has had the same effect on my life and relationship with God.
A line from the movie A Few Good Men said by Jack Nicholson comes to mind…”You can’t handle the truth”. I know I’m making a judgement here, but it describes a lot of people who refuse to see the truth. It is these people who, if Jesus walked the earth today would crucify Him again. None are so blind as those who will not see.
Peace

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Maureen August 22, 2012 at 10:41 am

“None are so blind as those who will not see”. If Jesus walked the earth today, it is people like Ian who would crucify him again. God bless you on your journey.

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Ian August 22, 2012 at 10:54 am

What is interesting to note about this extended discussion is that no one has addressed the issues that I mentioned in my post.

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alan September 17, 2012 at 7:39 pm

I found the above article most interesting, but the comments enlightening. The reason most Catholics since vat2 are appalingly ignorant of their faith is that there are so few really Catholic schools that teach the cathecism. I spoke with a HS sophomore on 15 August and he was completely unaware that it was a high holy day. School had begun that week, so school was in session. Another problem is that the typical religion teacher in a parrish knows very little about the Catholic faith and that includes so many “new age” nuns assigned to parrishes.

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Dave September 27, 2012 at 2:57 pm

Interesting reading these comments. No wonder so many people are losing interest in Religion (just read comments above). Recent polls show a growing interest spirituality than ever, while denominational membership decreases yearly. Is it really about being right? Having the right answers? dogma? the Pope? Is Jesus going to ask us “Did you have the right belief?”

It’s harder to practice orthopraxy than orthodoxy. Orthodoxy doesn’t ask you to change.

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Ian September 28, 2012 at 12:27 am

And where do you find the answers to your questions?

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Dave September 28, 2012 at 10:22 am

Ian – That’s a good question. Spiritually speaking, it could be through a book, a talk by someone (sermon possibly), maybe a gradual awareness (to a former question). But the answers are more intuitive than knowledge based. I’d add that I don’t have a lot of questions immediatlye answered, or at all. If we had all our questions answered we wouldn’t need faith – faith for the journey or faith to follow Jesus the best as one can understand. But, I can see it’s important to keep asking questions and to keep seeking God. I don’t think it ever stops but we grow greater into Him/Her or vice versa.

I came across this site looking for something on Rohr and I consider him a great teacher. I’m not Catholic, but he hits the nail on a lot of areas in my experience.

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Maureen January 18, 2013 at 10:52 pm

Dave,
I am a Catholic but very disillusioned with religion. Rohr has made me more faithful to my Catholic faith ironically. He is truly a modern day Prophet full of wisdom!

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Kristin November 20, 2012 at 4:18 pm

Thanks for this responsible and reliable review of Richard Rohr, Ian. I had only seen his enticing book titles & subjects but didn’t know much more about him. Thanks for being a trustworthy filter.

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Maureen January 18, 2013 at 10:54 pm

Ian is anything but a trust worthy filter. He doesn’t get it. Father Rohr is a modern day Prophet ….those like Ian, if Jesus were to walk the earth today, would crucify him again.

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James McC November 25, 2012 at 5:17 pm

My objection to Richard Rohr is that he is the authority. As an attorney and a Catholic, I am accustomed to hearing speakers or writers citing an authority. You demonstrate deference. You appeal to the Holy Spirit. In my limited knowledge of Rohr, he does not do that. Then, again, I am not sure whether Ronald Rolheiser does that either and he is not controversial. It seems like Rohr could put all these doubts to rest by showing some humility. I do not see any. I like when a priest explains the Gospel. I like thoughtful or provocative discussions. I like wisdom. I do not like the glory of a person rather I like the glory of God.

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Ian November 25, 2012 at 6:09 pm

Actually, I just recently read Fr. Rolheiser’s newest book and there are several things in it about the Eucharist that are highly questionable including his statement that saying the Our Father during Mass is equivalent to going to Confession so you don’t have to skip Communion.

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Shamrock November 25, 2012 at 7:48 pm

Actually there are more red flags on Rolheiser than at a bullfight!
His *Catholicism* is of the modernist variety …not of Rome.
Nor is Father Thomas Keating, of Centering Prayer *fame*…I
think it is time that these priests who dissent from Truth in both print and public should be exposed for the charlatans they are in matters of Catholicity. They are making up a whole new religion.
And they are taking advantage of well-meaning but very poorly catechized Catholics who are weak not so much in desire to be faithful as to what the faith consists in.

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TRUTH&LIGHT November 26, 2012 at 3:18 pm

Ian,

I am with you to me it is really concerning how many people are buying all this new- age non sense without blinking. We must pray the holy Rosary for enlightenment in the world.

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Mark30339 December 15, 2012 at 6:26 pm

If God is calling us to be orthodox, why was his Son constantly challenging the orthodox establishment in Jerusalem? And if orthodoxy is so worthwhile, why was it filled with people who could not recognize the Son of God and could even join in having him crucified? For so many people, righteousness is about being identified clearly within the confines of orthodoxy — and once they draw the line they must protect their territory and drive out all those who contaminate their self-assurance. Righteousness is really about being in a deep and right relationship with our Creator. It is summed up nicely in verse 8 of Michah 6: we are to love justice and impose it upon our own conduct, we are to love mercy and shower it upon the conduct of others, and we are to continue our journey through this life honestly and humbly with our Creator God.

I’m a cradle catholic and I had been attending Our Lady of Authority Worship quite long enough. My journey with God has predisposed me to welcome the loving embrace Fr. Rohr has for scripture. Is Aquinas & More honestly saying God’s message to them is that they must stand in the way of others who might be similarly moved by Richard Rohr and further denounce him as a heretic? Maybe you should rename yourself Caiaphas & More. I commend to you Archbishop Dom Helder Camara’s insights on the prodigal’s brother. And I challenge you to ponder how heretical the father is in Our Lord’s Parable of the Prodigal Son or the employer is in His Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard.

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Shamrock December 16, 2012 at 10:18 am

Truth is either absolute or not. Jesus taught that He is Truth thereby making Truth absolute. Practically speaking that means
that we cannot interpret Truth other than what Jesus says. Ken, Richard are two prime examples of what the Pope was pointing out when he stated that the great evil of our times (heresy) is relativizing the Truth. Thus Ken has his truth which he sees as the same as Richard’s truth. We have only one Truth. Jesus the Christ created the Church as the depository of his Truth here on earth untl He comes again. Anybody who denies the Church, denies the Truth, Jesus Christ. Some people don’t like that. Lucifer was the first to want his *own* version of the truth. Many today are so convinced of their own *importance* that they have followed the devil in their arrogancy. To know and acknowledge Truth is an act of humility, not arrogancy.

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Mark30339 December 16, 2012 at 11:13 am

No doubt truth and values need to be simple and straightforward for our youngsters as they grow up. But the real learning is in all the exceptions — particularly when family members fall short of the values to which children were expected to conform. In time troubling questions arise like why did Jesus have to die, and why didn’t God stop the crucifixion. As an adult, one might ponder how troubling truth can be, truth like the Son of God was born a descendant of King David — the same David caught in adultery and a haunting murder conspiracy, and the same David who refused to execute the son who raped a half-sister and who wept bitterly over the loss of his first born who rose up in armed rebellion against him. God gives us a life filled with paradox and conflict, and the truth to be gleaned from scripture, life experience and prayer is not so easy to discern or apply. I’ve looked over the beatitudes and I haven’t found the one that says: “Blessed are the orthodoxy enforcers, for they shall sit at the right hand of God.”

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Jewells December 16, 2012 at 11:16 am

Very well said. Truth being relative is what the new age is all about and the new age Jesus was an ascended master that was a reincarnation of many character in the Old Testament and other ancient spiritual leaders and he learned to do miracles from Eastern Mysticism where these Masters of the far east taught him the occult. All of it is a lie and found in the Edgar Cayce readings and the new age teaching and truth being relative is it’s mantra. It’s all a lie and so many are being fooled by it. Pray the Rosary because this movement is growing and does not like our Church. Pray for them.

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Mark30339 December 16, 2012 at 10:45 am

The “Denial of Hell . . .” article linked above but no longer posted was available at the wayback machine and captured by me here:
http://mark30339.blogspot.com/2012/12/preserving-post.html

The key extract from Rohr’s post is this:
“It often seems that religion’s most common concern is to find out what God does not like, where God is not present, and who God does approve for hating and excluding. Perhaps we are seeking to legitimate our own need to exclude and hate and dominate? Why else would we like a God who succeeds by punishing and always dominates? We have been told in recent years that God does not like homosexuals, God is not present in mosques and synagogues, and God is not bothered at all by the direct and collateral damage of our necessary wars. Abortion killing is the only killing that is inherently bad because the fetus is “innocent life.” This “morality” will only work if we can dare to think of ourselves as innocent! If legal protection and moral response depends on us being innocent or worthy, “then who can be saved?” What makes the Good News good news is precisely that God loves and defends unworthy and non-innocent life! Otherwise, you and I have little hope. And we can easily justify capital punishment, torture, euthanasia, and even pre-emptive wars against the unworthy ones—which is exactly what we have done. We have become the small god we worshiped.”

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Ian December 16, 2012 at 5:48 pm

Thank you for finding the article. It actually makes Fr. Rohr look worse than I remembered:

Caricature of the Catholic teaching on Hell and judgment, referring to God as he/she, caricaturing of the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, dismissal of the punishments of Hell as ridiculous.

Yes, thank you for pointing out how far away from Catholic teaching Fr. Rohr is and the lengths he will go to to misrepresent the Truth to make a point.

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Mark30339 December 19, 2012 at 9:35 pm

Obviously we will have to respectfully disagree. I think the captions you’ve put on your Rohr links are gross misrepresentations. For example your “dismissal of the fetus” label is outrageous. Richard is as saddened by the violence of abortion as anyone, what he questions is how pro-life postures on infants fail to translate into similar postures against killings in pre-emptive warfare, drone strikes, and the execution of prisoners. I’m not expecting you to agree with him, just portray him fairly.

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Jewells December 19, 2012 at 10:01 pm

He does not understand the difference? Violence in warfare is equal to abortion? He makes them equal? He does not see a difference between the two?

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Jewells December 16, 2012 at 11:02 am

YAY Shamrock ! Well said and I ran into alot of the truth being relative while spending time with new age friends years ago. I loved Richard Rohr at that time and was addicted to his audio tapes. He would be very entertaining and then take pot shots at the Pope or the Catholic Church and was really pushing socialism big time too but I was not educated on that topic well enough to understand that. I’m back home now with the Catholic Church and I love it and anybody that does not love it should transfer to the Episcopal Church….they would be happier . Why suffer by staying in a Church you do not agree with? There are plenty of options out there.

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Sunsetwest December 18, 2012 at 10:07 pm

I am a young catholic woman who has a had ‘re-version’ back to my Catholic faith (so to speak) and it saddens me to see/hear some of the things which ‘Fr’ Richard Rohr has said in his DVDs about the Church. I was part of a bible study group where we stopped studying the Bible so as study Rohr’s teachings. I will say that i stopped going because one; the other participants and the facilitator did not appreciate my concerns/thoughts and made me feel as if I was some ‘backward orthodox conservative’ and two it didn’t seem we were going to be studying the Bible any time soon.
I fully support Ian’s and others comments-if it offends people this is not my intention but of course everyone has a right to say what one believes-and Fr Richard Rohr is someone who promotes this so really no one should be feeling upset about people voicing their opinions on this forum.

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Shamrock January 18, 2013 at 2:24 pm

Ken…If you believe that Jesus is the Truth and the Light and you adhere to all ( not just what you find comfortable) His teachings,
then how can you be so dismissive of Church authority and also
follow Jesus’s words in Matthew 16: 18-19 where clearly Jesus
indicates with words his desire to establish a Church, through Peter, to teach and preserve the Truth until He comes again. You seem most inconsistent with faith in Jesus but not in the Church He established. That is basis for the heresy known as modernism and
you seem to have fallen for it. The danger for people weak in their faith is to listen to others who have left the narrow way Jesus speaks about for the wide path that leads to perdition. Worse yet, to ignore the warnings about the books and *retreats* given by these heretics, like Rohr, that seem to contain enough of the truth that one reading them ( or listening at retreats) thinks *everything* that they espouse must also be true . It sounds good and tickles the ears and delights the senses and few discern the difference. Thus the Church in all charity gives warning. I am grateful to Ian and others who are willing to stand up and take the verbal assault from those who think they know Truth and are only looking at their own reflection…their own version or in this case, Rohr’s version of the Truth. Thanks Ian for being a light to the path to Truth. Unfortunately some prefer the darkness and only the grace of God
will be their salvation. Even then some will refuse it.

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Maureen January 18, 2013 at 10:46 pm

Ian…..you are a person who is living in illusion. I will pray for you.

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Jo February 20, 2013 at 4:30 pm

Hello,
I was Googling Richard Rohr and came across this little Beauty!
Amidst the fear and loathing there were a few interesting little comments about Gospel Truth and the Church being faithful to Christ’s teachings. Might I ask where in the Gospels He agreed that Mary would appear and whether setting up little statues in her honour would point to God? I mean when we’re talking theology and truth and Fr Richard’s explorations, it would be good to know how I might understand what is truth and how is it found?

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Ian February 21, 2013 at 12:11 pm

From your two comments it is clear that you are part of the Fr. Rohr cult and not actually Catholic.

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Jo February 21, 2013 at 4:19 pm

From my two comments you can deduce nothing.I haven’t been led astray. I asked a question about doctrine. I played Devil’s Advocate. I’m a card carrying and fully paid up RC. Just wondered how you decided what was kosher. The Church hasn’t excommunicated him as far as I know. You seem fearful. Great theologians challenge as Jesus did. I know little about R Rohr. You make me want to know more!!!bi might come to the same conclusion as you; who knows? But I’d rather find out for myself than trust your judgement now that I’ve seen how you carry on!

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Sunsetwest February 22, 2013 at 10:15 pm

Im no theologian or academic but when I see/hear people dismissing ‘Mary’ (the Mother of Jesus) its a bit concerning. As Catholics we understand Mary to be our help and advocate of the human race. We do not worship her and place her before God. If we look at nearly all the lives of the Saints in time they all had a special relationship with Mary-because She ALWAYS directs us to Jesus. Mary has and never wanted to be the centre point but She was vital in being the vessel in which Jesus was able to come to us…we see this clearly in the Gospels particularly at the ‘Wedding at Cana’.
“The more we honour the Blessed Virgin, the more we honour Jesus Christ, because we honour Mary only that we may the more perfectly honour Jesus, since we go to her only as the way by which we are to find the end we are seeking, which is Jesus”-St Louis de Montfort.
Mary teaches us how to live out the Gospel message especially those about love and compassion…

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Jo February 23, 2013 at 3:18 pm

Mary is indeed Christ Bearer. We honour her.
I have seen with my own eyes, adoration of Our Lady that borders on the blasphemous. I will not pretend otherwise for the sake of quiet. in addition my own M in Law preferred to go to Mary with her prayer than God because she felt God would listen to Mary rather than her. How sad.

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Charles February 21, 2013 at 8:06 pm

Its amazing how some people set themselves up in Christs’ place, and make idols of the church and god. Hatred and fundamentalism are powerful tools to be led astray by – I’ll pray for your salvation.

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Becky February 22, 2013 at 11:50 pm

Jo, indulgences are not a doctrine of the Church. (You gave yourself away with that one). I believe we are called to live the values of love and compassion not simply explore them.
Is it possible to “explore” Truth???

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Jo February 23, 2013 at 2:17 am

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
OF POPE PAUL VI

INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA

WHEREBY THE REVISION
OF SACRED INDULGENCES IS PROMULGATED

Chapter 1

1. The doctrine and practice of indulgences which have been in force for many centuries in the Catholic Church have a solid foundation in divine revelation(1) which comes from the Apostles and “develops in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit,” while “as the centuries succeed one another the Church constantly moves forward toward the fullness of divine truth until the words of God reach their complete fulfillment in her.”(2)

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Jo February 23, 2013 at 2:23 am

Becky
I am RC. I am not a cradle catholic and therefore I suppose there might be the odd time I am unaware of terms. After thirty years I feel I’m still learning which is good. I don’t think it’s helpful when folk like yourself get picky and make assumptions. Not kind and not Christian. “Gave yourself away”! Pay attention to yourself please Becky.
Truth is truth. Yes. However we don’t have truth conferred upon us; as Aquinas said, faith seeks understanding.
Also please see below.

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Jo February 23, 2013 at 2:25 am

Above!

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Jo February 24, 2013 at 2:56 am

Indulgences are Doctrine since Doctrine is Teaching. I’m really loathe to point score but if we followed Ian’s logic does that make the Cradle Catholic look like a “Fundamentalist Protestant” for failing to know that?!?!?! Sorry, couldn’t resist a little ‘Touche’!

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Jo February 23, 2013 at 2:57 am

I’m going to write something quite strong now and I write it from a place of sadness. I meet people who have been taught what the church teaches but not that God loves them with a depth beyond imagining.
What emanates from some if these posts is a relationship with the Church. But faith is a relationship with God and a testament to the power of love in our lives.
I have met some awesome people in the Church on my journey as a Catholic & they have inspired me. My life has taken an amazing turn because of the inspiration of their life & faith. I ask that if we are to be taken seriously as Catholic people of faith that we pay attention to how we treat people who struggle or question and also who disagree with us. Jesus would want that.

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Shamrock February 23, 2013 at 8:20 am

About those who depart from what the Church teaches Pope Benedict XVI has said: ( and the faithful would be wise to take heed)

” It is important to recognize dissent for what it is
and not to mistake it for a mature contribution to a
balanced and wide-ranging debate.”

Fr Richard Rohr is “off the track” in terms of our faith and is misleading many guillable persons who seek his “warm-fuzzy”
comforting message of false witness in place of the proverbial Cross that Christ presents as a the Way to Salvation.

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Jo February 23, 2013 at 3:26 pm

It is right to be truthful about what one feels or thinks. Otherwise there can be no discussion. When we teach our children we listen to their insights and we value them. We do our teaching also in the way we respond to their questioning. Likewise when people speak of their fears and anxieties about faith, about God, about the Church. We create a loving and safe place whilst knowing what the Church teaches. That is how it is done. It is not done by aggressively shouting them down and telling them they are in error if they can’t believe. Their faith journey is unique and God is quite up to task in the taking of hands and bringing people home.

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Becky February 23, 2013 at 8:54 am

Jo I too am a cradle Catholic who is going through the struggle which is life. And never pretend to be any type of theologian.
After all these years I have learned, a life of Faith is not nearly as hard as we humans try to make it. There are plenty of self help books and speakers out there. Fr. Rohr speaks lofty words and throws in a Bible verse here to make it sound authentic. But under all the loftiness I find it all New Age chatter. That is my personal opinion.
I spoke to my Priest about why the Church has not excommunicated Rohr and I found his answer quite charitable but befuddling. He informed me that the Church has chosen, in recent history, not to take that negative approach. That She affirms publications and that if one’s teachings are consistent with the Church you will find the book contains the seal of his Bishop on the title page.
I find it befuddling because I NEVER would have known that if I had not asked him….
St Theresa teaches us of “the little way”. How simple and difficult. Such is life this side of Heaven.

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Becky February 23, 2013 at 9:01 am

Sorry Jo I misread that you were a cradle Catholic. My bad.

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Jo February 23, 2013 at 3:11 pm

Thank you Becky. I had a wonderful Christian upbringing but was received into the Church thirty years ago!
PS I am not pro or against R Rohr. I merely wish to read for myself and decide.

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Shamrock February 23, 2013 at 4:49 pm

Jo….Yes, but recall John Cardinal Henry Newman said, ” Ten thousand difficulties do not make a single doubt”! In this year of faith we can learn so much from those who teach us how to be obedient to Christ’s call. He has promised if we but seek we shall find, if we ask it (faith) will be gven to us. Faith and trust go hand in hand.We all will struggle toward the goal and have difficulties but we perservere through them, like Paul and all the saints. It does not help if along the way we run across a priest, like Father Rohr, who in his struggle (s) with the truth of our faith leads others astray. Because he is a priest, people will take him at his word which is scandelous and ruinous for souls as he clearly dissents. It
is an obligation to warn others of the pitfalls of his books and writings wherein they are not in keeping with the church’s teaching. To be Catholic is a way of life, a difficult and arduous way for it is
the way of sacrificial love. The road to perdition Jesus warned is wide and smooth and easy. The road we follow Jesus on is narrow
and difficult and many will turn away in anquish and sorrow. We need the sacraments of the church to give us strength and holy, devout priests to bring them to us. We must pray that Father Rohr
will use his talents to that end.

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Shamrock February 23, 2013 at 4:59 pm

Jo…I do not know your MIL but surely she was merely beseeching Mary to aide her in her requests knowing that it is God Who is All Mighty and Powerful …and her Creator. Mary is like all mothers
in her love for us and is a comforting presence to know she is our Mother in Heaven. She is the *vessel* through whom God entered
the world ( Incarnation) and she continues to bring Jesus to us in]
our daily prayers. You are having difficulty with Mary perhaps because you do not accept this teaching which is very much a part of Catholic belief and practice. Many have this struggle because
they struggles with their own mother who may have not be very maternal….just as some struggle as seeing God the Father as a loving and merciful God…because they struggled with their own earthly fathers. This may not be your case but know that if you reach out to Mary you will grow closer to Jesus.

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Jo February 24, 2013 at 12:18 am

No, Shamrock you do not know my MI Law! You will just have to believe me & not decide that you know what I am REALLY saying!
The Church herself speaks of Idolatry of Mary. It is possible. She speaks to us of Jesus but she is not in place of him. Sadly there are those who don’t grasp that because of poor teaching.

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Maureen February 23, 2013 at 7:50 pm

Can anyone tell me how I can unsubscribe from this site? Thank you.

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Jo February 24, 2013 at 12:22 am

Maureen, I cannot find how to do this myself! I am weary of being drawn into unedifying discussion. I don’t want to see anymore comments in my email box because I’m beginning to feel annoyed. And it’s Lent!

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Shamrock February 24, 2013 at 10:29 am

Yes, Maureen, just click on the ural below the comment you receive, that says to unsubscribe….I don’t blame you for it
is getting a bit *insane* here….God bless you during this Lenten season and always!.

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Maureen February 24, 2013 at 10:46 am

Thank you Shamrock. And God bless you too!

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Jo February 24, 2013 at 3:10 am

Scripture and Tradition do work hand in hand in slightly complicated way.

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Jo February 24, 2013 at 3:11 am

Scripture and tradition go hand in hand…

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